Discrepancy with the builders Transfer Plan and the boundary on the ground.

[Mitche11]

I am looking for some advice regarding the following:

I am in the process of purchasing a property and have come across a discrepancy with the builders Transfer Plan and the boundary on the ground. The seller purchased the property new in 2016. Upon me viewing the Transfer Plan Deeds sent from my conveyancer and viewing the property on the ground I noticed the discrepancy, see photos. As you can see the boundary fence should be in the middle of the shared access between the property and the neighbours property, but the fence is actually in line with the side of the property I am purchasing, the red line on the Transfer Plan clearly shows where the fence boundary should be. What concerns me is that if this isn't rectified now will it be a problem in the future?

My conveyancer raised the query with the sellers conveyancer and their response was as follows:

What are your proposals in light of the above? Are you merely stating a position or seeking rectification if so, the latter would be costly and time prohibitive in the circumstances and would require the input of Persimmon Homes. The property is of course still under NHBC warranty therefore your Client would have recourse under the schemed.

Alternatively, do you propose any indemnity or price reduction? If so, please put your proposals and draft policies to us or negotiate on price via the agent.

I don't want to hold up the purchase but at the same time I don't want to leave myself in a position that if I decide to sell in the future that the same problem arises!

What would be my best option to be able to proceed with the purchase without any hold ups?

Many Thanks.

[des8]

More importantly where do Land Registry files show the boundary?

[Mitche11]

The Land Registry show a thick red line that is in line with the property I am purchasing but as I understand it the Land Registry Plan is not always accurate and is drawn by the Land Registry. The Transfer Deeds from the builders clearly show the fence boundary should be in the middle of the property and the neighbours and not in line with the property I am purchasing.

[Mitche11]

I have attached the Land Registry Plan below.

I found the following information and believe the Transfer Plan Deeds have more legal standing than the Land Registry Plan.

Whilst Land Registry title plans can be used as a guide, they do not show the exact position of legal boundaries, only general land ownership. The starting point for determining a boundary should be the pre-registration title deeds, which might include documents such as abstracts of title, conveyances and transfers, as well as descriptions of the land that can help to establish the legal boundary position.

[des8]

I agree with what you say, I was just wondering if the Land Registry had made a mistake (easily rectified) or if the deed sent to Land Registry was incorrect. If there was an error in the deed submitted to LR I believe the correction can only be made via court or tribunal.

i would think that if you are not too fussed about losing a foot(?) of garden it would be easier to agree to keep the boundary where it is and , and come to a price reduction in return for transferring ownership of that parcel of land to neighbouring property

[ostell]

It may be worth getting the LR record for next door and see what it says. Do your deeds mention the right of way to your garden?

[Mitche11]

It may be worth getting the LR record for next door and see what it says. Do your deeds mention the right of way to your garden?

The line on the LR record is so thick that it's hard to define the boundary for the property I am in the process of purchasing and on the neighbours record. I have a copy of the TP1 for the property I am in the process of purchasing. I have attached a screenshot of the TP1 Plan, you will see I have drawn a blue line which is in line with the red line coming from the front of the property, the fence on the ground is where I have drawn the blue line, the red line above is where the fence should be on the ground. The TP1 is dated 29/06/2016.

What is my best option so I can proceed with the purchase? Ideally I would like the fence to be moved to the correct location but do not want to upset the neighbours!

[Mitche11]

I agree with what you say, I was just wondering if the Land Registry had made a mistake (easily rectified) or if the deed sent to Land Registry was incorrect. If there was an error in the deed submitted to LR I believe the correction can only be made via court or tribunal.
i would think that if you are not too fussed about losing a foot(?) of garden it would be easier to agree to keep the boundary where it is and , and come to a price reduction in return for transferring ownership of that parcel of land to neighbouring property

Good morning DES8, an update from this thread and a request for some advice please.

We moved to our new property in September and decided it was easier to leave the fence where it is, we believe the reason the builders put the fence in it's current location is because our neighbour has three drains in his garden and if the fence was moved it would be on top of the drains.

I am now looking for some advice on another aspect with my garden. Our neighbour at the rear of our garden has offered to sell us a small piece of land that is on the right of our garden, for £1, it isn't worth anything to him due to the position of the land and is also a hassle for him to maintain, (see photo below) it's the land marked in red that our neighbour would like to sell.



The other reason for him wanting to sell is because he would like to move the fence nearer to the road to stop people driving and parking on the grass and churning it into mud but if he did this then the land next to our garden would have two fences. For him to sell us the land it would benefit both of us as it would increase the size of our garden by an extra approx. 5ft wide and he would no longer have to maintain it.

My question is, can we do all the relevant paperwork ourselves or do we need to instruct a conveyancer? If we can do the paperwork ourselves please could I have advice on what we would need to do?

Thank You.

[des8]

You can do it yourselves, but there may be problems.
1) if that strip of land is adjoining a public road (not necessarily an adopted road) in which case it might be part of the public highway. and you might not be able to enclose it (It looks as if it just gives access to garages)
That is where searches become important.
2) is the sellers property subject to a mortgage? if so the mortgagee might insist on a qualified conveyancer being instructed.
3) both parties will probably need to get proof of identity before Land registry will record the change of ownership

Land Registry will give limited assistance in filling their forms.
Here's the starter for10 https://www.gov.uk/registering-land-...-your-property

Good luck and a Happy New Year!

[Mitche11]

You can do it yourselves, but there may be problems.
1) if that strip of land is adjoining a public road (not necessarily an adopted road) in which case it might be part of the public highway. and you might not be able to enclose it (It looks as if it just gives access to garages)
That is where searches become important.
2) is the sellers property subject to a mortgage? if so the mortgagee might insist on a qualified conveyancer being instructed.
3) both parties will probably need to get proof of identity before Land registry will record the change of ownership
Land Registry will give limited assistance in filling their forms.
Here's the starter for10 https://www.gov.uk/registering-land-...-your-property
Good luck and a Happy New Year!

Good Evening DES8,

The strip of land is owned by our neighbour at the rear and so is half of the road. (I have attached my neighbours title plan and ours so you can see).
Our property and our neighbours both have mortgages.
Our neighbour wants to put a fence up to stop vehicles driving on the grass verge (strip of land) because it is damaging the grass and spoiling the look of the street, this will mean that we will have a grass verge between our fence and the fence he puts up giving us no access to maintain or repair our fence. Our neighbour is happy to give us the strip of grass that is in line with our garden but wants to instruct a qualified conveyancer. We got a quote from a qualified conveyancer but it is just too much money and we cannot afford it. Is there any other solution?

[des8]

I don't see why you shouldn't rent that odd strip of land for peppercorn rent e.g £1 for 12 months or 5 years or whatever time scale is agreeable to both of you.

Roads are commonly owned to the midpoint by the frontagers, but as they are public highway there is nothing they can do with the land.
The public highway generally stretches from hedge/fence to hedge/fence, in which case you will not be allowed to fence it in.
You need to confirm with your local authority what the position is before you fence that strip of land.
The planning dept could probably tell you where the definitive plan is held, and it must be available free of charge for inspection by the public

[Mitche11]

I don't see why you shouldn't rent that odd strip of land for peppercorn rent e.g £1 for 12 months or 5 years or whatever time scale is agreeable to both of you.

Roads are commonly owned to the midpoint by the frontagers, but as they are public highway there is nothing they can do with the land.
The public highway generally stretches from hedge/fence to hedge/fence, in which case you will not be allowed to fence it in.
You need to confirm with your local authority what the position is before you fence that strip of land.
The planning dept could probably tell you where the definitive plan is held, and it must be available free of charge for inspection by the public

Hi DES8,

The road is a private road and is not being adopted. On my deeds it shows that the road at the side of my house is shared access for only the five houses that are down that road, my rear neighbour being one of them.

My rear neighbour owns the grass verge at the side of my garden, it is on his deeds also the other side of the private road their fence goes up to the road, (see photo), the blocked paving part of the road you can see on the photo is being adopted.

Road Side of House.pdf

[des8]

As you are sure it is a private road and none of the other users have any objections, there shouldn't be any problems with fencing in that strip.

Not knowing exactly the position I was just trying to warn you of possible pit falls