Boundary with partial remains of an old and a new fence.

[DaveyStott]

The photo shows the boundary between two attached houses when both houses were sold back in 2016. Before this, these properties had only ever been owned by a single company and rented out. The land that surrounds the houses remains private and is owned by the same company.

The houses were refurbished, new fences were erected, and they were then sold individually.

The boundary in the photo is my responsibility according to the inward ‘T’ shown on my deeds.

To this point, myself and my neighbours have been assuming that the boundary was defined by the far edge of the wooden fence. The assumption being that this was the intended exact boundary of the property even though it was not exactly in the middle.

I have maintained the assumption that the wooden fence was mine and that the boundary was its far edge. It seemed a reasonable assumption to me that the seller chose not to remove what remained of the chain-link in order to reduce costs.

It is an assumption of mine that, given that these properties had never been individually owned before us, that the boundary indicated on OS maps was simply an assumption. The fence erected by the seller defines the boundary as no boundary really existed beforehand.

My neighbour is now suggesting that the remains of the chain link fence (which I have since removed) actually represented my border and my fence. Therefore, they are making the claim that the wooden fence is in fact their property.

Any opinions on this matter will be gratefully received.

[Amethyst]

Isn't it better for you as they're basically saying it's theirs, and they are responsible for maintenance etc in the future.

The position of the fence on their side of the chain link fence might also indicate it's theirs, however the T marks, and that the 'good' side faces them might indicate otherwise.

Is there a reason the argument has arisen ?

[des8]

what does Land Registry title say (if anything) about fences And boundaries?. Their plans are normally only indicative unless determined.

[DaveyStott]

Isn't it better for you as they're basically saying it's theirs, and they are responsible for maintenance etc in the future.

The position of the fence on their side of the chain link fence might also indicate it's theirs, however the T marks, and that the 'good' side faces them might indicate otherwise.

Is there a reason the argument has arisen ?

Thanks AMETHYST,

If it is determined that the real boundary is exactly in the middle, and we accept that, then I wonder if the fence is still mine?

If the determination is made then I imagine they will claim ownership of the fence itself. I anticipate that they will then move the fence to the exact middle.

If this were to happen do I assume that the 'T' on my deeds means nothing unless I erect my own fence right against theirs?

It is confusing.

I believe that they have been planning to dispute this boundary for some time. I think that it has been brought into the open now because we are insisting that they remove a trellis that they have attached to our fence. In response they are saying we will not remove the trellis until the boundary issue is resolved. Along the lines of "why should we remove the trellis if the fence is in fact ours and siting on our property".

[DaveyStott]

what does Land Registry title say (if anything) about fences And boundaries?. Their plans are normally only indicative unless determined.

Thanks DES8,

Our deeds say nothing about the boundaries other than the 'T' marks indicating ownership.

For the land registry and title deeds, the property was outlined over the top of assumed boundary that were marked on the OS map.

These indicative plans do suggest that the boundary should perhaps be in the middle. I think I am correct in assuming that this does not matter and that other factors take precedence.

[des8]

All I can warn is that this could get out of hand and cost you both dearly, let alone having to live next door to people with whom you have fallen out..

From the photo it looks as if you are talking about less than 6".
If this eventually finishes in court, with surveyors fees to obtain determined boundaries, and the fact that when and if you come to sell you will need to declare the problem you have had with your neighbour.

Why are you insisting they remove the trellis?
Is it because it is your fence, or because it exceeds the 2 metre height restriction on fences?
If it is the latter, you could point out to your neighbour that even if their claim succeeds they will not be permitted to higher the fence (which from the photo looks like 2 meters)

[DaveyStott]

All I can warn is that this could get out of hand and cost you both dearly, let alone having to live next door to people with whom you have fallen out..

From the photo it looks as if you are talking about less than 6".
If this eventually finishes in court, with surveyors fees to obtain determined boundaries, and the fact that when and if you come to sell you will need to declare the problem you have had with your neighbour.

Why are you insisting they remove the trellis?
Is it because it is your fence, or because it exceeds the 2 metre height restriction on fences?
If it is the latter, you could point out to your neighbour that even if their claim succeeds they will not be permitted to higher the fence (which from the photo looks like 2 meters)

Wise words. Thank you.

We gave our neighbours permission to erect a trellis based on three assurances: (1) that it would not be painted on our side, (2) that no screws or nails would protrude through to our side and (3) that no supports would be visible from our side. They did not even attempt to satisfy these assurances.

The trellis is utterly dreadful and probably dangerous. We have to look at it from our lounge. Of course, we regret giving them permission. Piss has been taken and we now see that they never intended to do a good job all along. This boundary issue was the plan.

The boundary is probably over 1 ft from the middle. The fence is well over 2m high at the house. It blocks light in to our lounge.

We are not getting on well with our neighbours at this point. There are many other issues that do not relate to this rear fence. It is difficult to figure out which issues we should address and how.

It is tempting to simply complain to the local council because they do not have permission to raise the fence over 2m. Then, let them spend some money on surveyors. If the opinion of the surveyor suggests that they have a case then we build our own fence and let them have the existing one.

Thanks again for considering my post!

[des8]

Well good luck, and i hope you resolve your problems (amicably in the end!0