Party Wall Award problems

[verdant64]

I am the Building Owner and I'm part way through an extension. I have a Party Wall Award with an extremely difficult Adjoining Owner, that I believe is invalid. I want to know what my options are.

First, before the award was made, my surveyor asked for drawings for the 'boundary fence wall' which alerted me to the fact that he and the neighbour's surveyor had made a fundamental error about the boundary. The award includes a 'demolish and rebuild the party fence wall with mass concrete foundations' yet the wall is wholly on my property. Due to space limitations, it would be incredibly costly if not impossible to build a wall in the space provided (about 700mm).

I told my surveyor this before the award was made, and he said that 'for the purposes of the act he will determine where the boundary is and I should stop wasting his time'.
The award was made on 14 February. I appointed a boundary surveyor who confirmed I was correct, but this happened after the 14 day period. The boundary surveyor approached the Party Wall Surveyor with this information, but he stated the same thing - he decided where the boundary is and nothing can change his view.

So now I have a situation where :
- there will need to be a material change to the award (replace the wall with a fence);
- that this isn't relevant since the PWA cites a 'boundary fence wall' which in reality doesn't exist.
- the surveyor and my neighbour are both very difficult characters to deal with.

I've already informally notified our neighbour that we intend to replace the wall with a fence and she has gone running to the AO surveyor.

What to do ?
- Notify the surveyors of the material change and see what they say ?
- Notify the AO surveyor and 3rd surveyor of the material change AND the boundary statement (it is a confirmation only, nothing formal yet) ?
- Anything else ?

I've already spent around £4000 on surveyors and fees and I am not willing to spend huge sums of money over a wall.

Any advice welcome.

Dominic

[charitynjw]

Hi & welcome to LB.

To clarify, is your proposed structure a wooen fence?
What height?
Are there any issues re loss of light? (Re the neighbour.)

[verdant64]

Hi,

> To clarify, is your proposed structure a wooden fence?
I am proposing a metal railing boundary fence. This reduces the maintenance and is more durable.

> What height?
The current wall is approximately 1100mm. I am proposing a railing of 600mm height.

> Are there any issues re loss of light? (Re the neighbour.)
No. We are extending our property out to the same extent as our neighbour. The neighbour's property is inset from the boundary by about 700mm. There is basically a void between the two properties of about 850mm (700 on their side, 150 on our side).

Attached is picture before the work started, showing the neighbour on the left and our property on the right.

Thanks

Dominic

[charitynjw]

What do the 2 lines in the pic designate?
Have you checked with either the property deeds or Land Registry re boundary demarcation?

[verdant64]

> What do the 2 lines in the pic designate?
The red line designates where I believe the boundary to be. This is based on :
1) Line of sight
2) Land Registry Information (the sloping wall appears on our land registry drawings as part of an outside toilet/store room).
3) Plans registered with the local council (showing the toilet/store room)
4) Measurements
A boundary surveyor has confirmed this is the case. He measured the distance between the two first floor windows to confirm the boundary is indeed on the red line.
The Land Registry does not show the garden wall at all, but as this is aligned with the sloping wall, it is on my property.

The yellow line is where the Party Wall Surveyor says the boundary is.

[verdant64]

Here's the same picture without the lines.
As you can see, it is nigh on impossible to rebuild the wall, and I want to replace it with a railing fence from the base of the picture (approx) to the extension wall, demolishing the sloping wall and part of the garden wall).

[charitynjw]

I told my surveyor this before the award was made, and he said that 'for the purposes of the act he will determine where the boundary is and I should stop wasting his time'.

Could you clarify which surveyor this is?

[verdant64]

> Could you clarify which surveyor this is?
The surveyor I appointed (the Building Owner Surveyor)
There were 3 surveyors - my surveyor (Building Owner) - the Adjoining Owner appointed her own and they appointed a third.
I've only ever spoken to the BO surveyor.

[charitynjw]

> Could you clarify which surveyor this is?
The surveyor I appointed (the Building Owner Surveyor)
There were 3 surveyors - my surveyor (Building Owner) - the Adjoining Owner appointed her own and they appointed a third.
I've only ever spoken to the BO surveyor.

He doesn't seem to be a very helpful sort, especially if you're paying?
Has he consulted the deeds, Land Registry etc?
Or did he just make an arbiitary decision as to the boundary line?

[verdant64]

> Has he consulted the deeds, Land Registry etc?
I don't know. Despite making arrangements, the surveyors never visited us (they visited the AO only). We have the deeds here, and they never asked for them. They may have referenced information at the Land Registry, but he never asked any questions.

> Or did he just make an arbiitary decision as to the boundary line?
I believe so. He said
The small section of ½ brick wall appears to be on the AOs land in any case again from our on-site investigations. This can also be established by a simple line of sight.
The rear section of wall has piers on the neighbour's land, which would suggest that it is more likely to be in her ownership if not a party fence wall.

I confirmed the boundary (for his benefit - as we are not in a boundary dispute with our neighbour, but with the surveyors), and presented this information to him. He said it was just an opinion, and his still stands.

What can I do in this circumstance ? Can I proceed on the basis that he is incorrect and the PWA is invalid, or do I need to get it corrected somehow ?
Or can I just try and get the fence replacement agreed ?

[des8]

You could risk having a determined boundary
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ned-boundaries

Probably easier just to get the neighbours to agree to the replacement fence.

[verdant64]

You could risk having a determined boundary
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ned-boundaries

Probably easier just to get the neighbours to agree to the replacement fence.

I believe that the neighbour agrees with me where the boundary lies - it is just that the Party Wall Surveyors have made a mistake and they do not agree with both of us. I haven't formally tested this with the neighbour.
So my dispute is not with the neighbour per se, but with the Party Wall Surveyors who haven't done their homework properly and have made a mistake.
In doing so, they've treated a Party Wall as a feature of the AO's property, and a non-Party wall on my property as a party wall. And raising this with them gets knocked down.

I approached the neighbour to agree about the replacement fence - she said she'd think about it. When I approached her for her answer, she said she'd contacted the AO surveyor and that it was in the Party Wall Surveyors hands.
Of course, it is not for her to change the material design of my property, so I expect this will go nowhere. I haven't heard anything yet.

[charitynjw]

I believe that the neighbour agrees with me where the boundary lies - it is just that the Party Wall Surveyors have made a mistake and they do not agree with both of us. I haven't formally tested this with the neighbour.
So my dispute is not with the neighbour per se, but with the Party Wall Surveyors who haven't done their homework properly and have made a mistake.
In doing so, they've treated a Party Wall as a feature of the AO's property, and a non-Party wall on my property as a party wall. And raising this with them gets knocked down.

I approached the neighbour to agree about the replacement fence - she said she'd think about it. When I approached her for her answer, she said she'd contacted the AO surveyor and that it was in the Party Wall Surveyors hands.
Of course, it is not for her to change the material design of my property, so I expect this will go nowhere. I haven't heard anything yet.

It looks like both your & the other party's surveyors are in agreement, which could make things a tad difficult for you.
If it were me I'd be scouring all available records for alternative proof.

[verdant64]

I've decided to get formal legal advice through my legal insurance. I will let you know how it ends up.

Many thanks to you all.

[verdant64]

Well, that didn't work out well. My Legal insurance doesn't cover this particular issue.