Redress from house seller

[enaid]

We purchased a house that was supposedly refurbished, the bathroom was the only problem it had a brand new suit and the walls were all panelled, the floor is laminated. Having a disabled daughter and husband we had too have the bath removed and a shower fitted to replace it. This was costly in itself but we knew that before we purchased the house.
When the builders we employed to refit the bathroom removed the bath they found all the joists were broken, they had been patched up with 3 by 2 timber but no way was this enough to make the joists safe. My plumber rang me straight away and said he could not and would not fit a shower tray onto this floor and the joists would have to be replaced. he sent me photos of the joists which I and he still have. He said had he not removed the bath and we had used it there was a great possibilty that the bath when full and my husband of 20 stone got in it , it would have gone through the floor. The thought of this happening to my disabled daughter really upset me to say the least
We had to agree to have this done at a cost of £480, I have since written to the seller and asked that this money be repaid to me. I wrote on 2 occasions and this morning received a letter form her solicitor stating 'neither they nor the seller will enter into any further correspondence with me relating to the purchase of the property'.
As the broken joists would not have shown up on any survey as the bath, flooring and wall covering would have been ruined this would have gone undetected until luckily the bath was removed before we moved in or until something seriously dangerous happened to one of us.
I feel very strongly about this as I feel it is deception on their part and would like to take this further. I would just like to ask if you think a small claim is the next best step?

[des8]

Hi enaid

Lucky you were having your own alterations carried out by a decent tradesman.
Some might not have noticed the "repairs".

The property Misdescriptions Act of 1991 was repealed sometime ago as buyers are protected by the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs)
However they only apply to a trader, which would include an estate agent
If the botched work could not be seen until the covering had been stripped away, IMO you could not hold the agent liable.
However if the seller themselves told you the property had been completely refurbished, and you could show that they would have known of the substandard work, you could possibly have a case under The Misrepresentation Act 1967.
Was the seller the builder who had renovated the property?
I think it will all depend on what was said and by whom at the time negotiations were progressing.

[enaid]

Hi Des,
Thanks for your response, the bungalow was owned by an elderly lady and I think the repairs were probably overseen by a relative of hers although thats not definite. She wasn't living in the house while the work was being done it was vacant. The so called builders were here quite a long time and have asked the neighbours if they could recall any firms name on the vans but they were just white is all they can remember.
This as I said could not have been found in the survey so can not sue the surveyor and there are lots of get out clauses anyway.
I am relying on the fact it was repaired in such a poor way it could have caused us serious harm had it not been discovered.
There are quite few things 'not quite right' with the property but those we will have to swallow sadly
This one though I am adamant about getting our money back so I think I will take my chance on small claims what do you think?

[des8]

I think you will have problems succeeding in a court case, simply because you will not be able to pin down who was responsible.

Was it the elderly lady?
Was it her relatives?
Did the builder do it without authority?

Purchased from executors?
Did the executors oversee the repairs?
Did they know about substandard work?
Did they authorise substandard work?


If joists are being replaced I'm not sure but think it is considered a structural alteration and requires Building regulation approval.
Might be worth a conversation with your local authority to see if they have anything to add

[enaid]

I just read this

If the use of a room is changed and could result in the load (weight) on the floor structure changing significantly work to strengthen the floor may be necessary.

For example, if a new bathroom suite is installed in a room where the floor structure is constructed of timber joists and boards, there is a significant risk of the floor being overloaded from the bath once it is full of water and in use. Therefore, work may be needed to strengthen such a floor.

A structural engineer or surveyor can assess the floor and determine this for you. If the floor does need to be strengthened they can produce the paperwork that a building control body will require before you commence the work.


So it does look as thought the regs apply in this case and that I should have a certificate on completion.

I also read that some tradesmen can certify their own work but still should supply a certificate.
So going off that, it doesnt seem to me that the work they did on the bathroom floor (trying to patch up the broken joists with 3x2) would have passed a test.

[des8]

But you still have the problem of whom to sue

You don't know the identity of the builder
The previous owner has passed away
The executors would not necessarily known about the floor

Possibly the executors or the elderly owner's family can tell you who the builders were.

[enaid]

No the owner is still alive shes gone living near her daughter I was told. It is her i have written to and as her solicitor now says they wont correspond on this matter at all I have no chance of finding out who the builder is.
I have photos of the joists as they were.

[des8]

Going back a stage:
Presumably you used a conveyancer
The seller should have disclosed any works undertaken at the property in the information supplied to you prior to purchase.(questions 4.1 & 4.2 on form TA6.)
Did they?

[enaid]

yes I have that all it says is a kitchen extension nothing more and nothing in the box about why no certificates etc were needed

[des8]

so they didn't disclose the bathroom works!!
Did the kitchen extension need and obtained building regs approval?
Get in touch with local building officer
Consider a claim for misrepresentation against the seller. The sellers property information form and replies to enquiries, form part of the contract between you . It is therefore a breach of that contract as they knowingly misrepresented the answers on the form and you relied on those representations in purchasing the property.

[enaid]

Thanks for that Des, just so you know we only actually received the completed information form yesterday with copies of deed etc.
We did see it at the beginning of the process I think but I thought it was down to the conveyancer to make sure all was ok with it.
The seller has failed to mention the conservatory on the form, has not completed the part that asks if building regs were not required why not for the kitchen extension. Nothing about the bathroom at all.
Would it be our fault if we didn't question the form initially?

[des8]

If there are gaps on the form one would expect the conveyancer to make further enquiries.
If he did not, you might have a case against him for negligence.
Is he a solicitor, or member of some professional organisation

However if the seller ticked "yes" to question 4.1a, but then omitted to mention ALL building works IMO that would be misrepresentation by omission

[enaid]

Yes he is a solicitor one of the ones that we had to use as advised by the mortgage company.

Yes was ticked in 4.1a so now i feel like going for the jugular instead of the £480 I was initially claiming for poor workmanship by her builders putting us at risk.
I think I need face to face advice on this but unsure which way to go, back to our solicitor or another route entirely

[des8]

I think you are wise to seek professional help.
If you are considering a claim for negligence against your own solicitor, you will need professional advice (I think) and that could be expensive.
Perhaps better to explore the misrepresentation side first off using your existing solicitor and see where it leads.
At the same time you could request a copy of the conveyancing file (just for interest!) and see what has /has not been done correctly

[enaid]

Thanks so much Des you have provided much food for thought, will email sol on Monday see what happens, thanks again and hope you and yours are well xx