Question on end of tenancy charges

[R0b]

So I am trying to assist a friend in relation to her end of tenancy charges and hoping someone can give me some scope as to whether or not the charges are reasonable. She made a deposit of about £1,100 and the overall charges so far (3 things TBC) amount to £1,300. The concerning charges consist of:

- 6 x £50 spot charges for alleged paint marks on a door handle, two slight marks on back of a chair and a spot on the floor
- £78 for 3x minor spot stains on corner of bedroom headboard, cushion, and corner of the bed
- £15 for leaving a single bra behind (not left behind intentionally)
- 2 x £150 maintenance charge for chips to the archatrive in two doorways
- £150 for a scratch on the door
- £150 charge for 2 (minor) indents to the bottom of the fridge
- 2x mirrors on wall with sticky back - TBC
- 3 door hooks sticky back again - TBC
- chip to veneer on fridge door - TBC

They have so far said that they will charge for the bra removal, the £78 charge and then a collective charge of £200 plus the 3xTBC charges.

Leaving aside the outstanding alleged damage, It seems to me some of the charges whether reduced or not seem a bit on the high side and in particular whether the charges for the indents on the fridge and the archatrive is reasonable. They all seem like standard charges to me which don't take into account the fact she has been living there for almost 2 years and that they might be considered betterment. I understand the property was newly refurbished but surely they cannot simply charge to put it in exactly the same condition by claiming replacement charges instead of perhaps repairs?

Anyhow, I am wondering whether this is even worth disputing (subject to their suggested TBC charges) or simply chalk it up to a crappy letting agent and move on though I appreciate that what is considered damage or wear and tear is subjective.

Crazy council

[Amethyst]

A bit on the high side ? Sounds like she was expected to live in a museum .... goodness me. £150 for a door ? is that a front door or an internal door? It sounds like they are just picking up on everything possible to make it come over the deposit amount. Did they put the deposit in a scheme? ( http://england.shelter.org.uk/housin...ed?src=hpban-s )

These might be useful to have a mooch through for the moment. They do say repairs, and second hand value for replacement etc.

https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com...ng%20items.pdf

https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com...ng%20items.pdf

main page - https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/case-studies.html - cleaning and redecoration guide on there too.

Where the claim is to replace a damaged item, we will consider whether there is evidence that
the item needs to be replaced.

Depending on the nature of the item and the damage, a specialist report can be helpful.

If we decide that the item is not so badly damaged as to require replacement, we will make an award to compensate the landlord for the damage and any reduction in the item’s lifespan.

I don't think a couple minor dints in a fridge render it needing replacement.

[enaid]

Have you not got a copy of the inventory photos when first moved in they should show up anyhting already there.

[R0b]

Thanks Ame, I never came across that info.

There is a vert detailed inventory with pictures of pretty much everything so it looks to be in a high standards at the beginning of the tenancy.

There is a scratch to the bedroom door chargeable at £150 though I've not seen that photo and the one I have seen of that door which has been taken from the tenant doesn't seem to show a scratch from usual distance so it must be a very close up shot.

As for the Archatrive costs, these do not seem to be there at the beginning but and admittedly she has not noticed the chip but she did mention that they did carry out some checks/repairs to the boiler cupboad earlier this year which may or may not have caused it. I don't think shes trying to get out of it for the sake of it but she is adamant that this was not her doing.

It seems like they have severely reduced the charges, why I do not know but there is of course the risk in that if she does challenge it then they might try and go for the full amount instead leaving no deposit.

Turns out also that she is informed some of the applicaiton fees she paid for is also covered by the landlords managed service so she was considering a claim to try to recoup some costs - also the cost of her checkout fee was £150!

Overall, I think she has had a really rough time and doesn't want to let go of any money which she feels is not reasonable. I think she is even prepared to hash it out in court if necessary!

And a charge of £15 for removing a single item of clothing.. laughable!

[enaid]

Why not get an independent in then argue the toss,

[Kati]

Diana M might be able to answer too (she's a LL I believe) xx

[Amethyst]

Try find out from here which deposit scheme her deposit is in - they likely have an arbitration service. I'm pretty sure those charges would be massively reduced even after their reduction.

So far they are claiming £200 for stuff they put down at £900 - plus the £78 for minor spot stains ( which also sounds extreme) - which says to me that they are simply making shit up that they know they wouldn't have a hope in hell's chance of getting if challenged, so that the tenant is soooooo greateful for the reduction they don't bother challenging. But I am ultra cynical of course... can't imagine why. Oh then of course these 3 TBC charges. Presumably there was a term saying she couldn't use nails or screws to fix things to wall, and she has stuck to that hence using the sticky back stuff, should just be a sand and a paint job, or acetone if they are just wood doors etc to remove the traces of sticky. Chips to veneer, well, fair wear and tear isn't it... maximum replace of that bit of veneer ? so that really would be over egging it at £50. So possibly £328 overall ? ( still too much IMO ) and a refund of her deposit of £750 odd.

[R0b]

Thanks Kati forgot to add Di.

I'm obviously trying to be objective here and I've heard they have tried it on with previous tenants in the building and ended up losing between 70-90% of what they were claiming.

Ultimately I think she accepts that there is some damage which can't explain e.g. the veneer chip in the corner of the fridge will result in some loss of deposit and I think she also accepts the sticky back hooks / mirrors as some kind of compensation for the removal. But for the majority of the other costs particular the cleaning issues, they seem to have overcharged or done what they wanted.

I believe the deposit is with TDS and I know there is an adjudication scheme but not sure how well they fare with tenants disputing something like this as to the actual compensation award.

As there are some outstanding charges this might come up or down in the but I agree they appear to be pushing their luck with some of this. She said she would be prepared to hand over probably £200 to them, might stretch to £300 but looking at it so far, the charges they are claiming suggest she's left it in a right pigsty, when in fact from her own photos taken it seems to be in a pretty decent standard.

Also, would you think the location of the damage has any bearing? For example, the chip to the doorframe of the cupboard is at the top and you can't see it when the door is closed though it might be discovered if you specifically looked at it or were tall enough to see, not from head height though

[Amethyst]

I've heard they have tried it on with previous tenants in the building and ended up losing between 70-90% of what they were claiming.

Sounds like they just expect that anyway by the sounds of it...looks like about 75% loss on their original claim at the moment.... really it'd be a toss up between paying the pretend reduced amount, or going to arbitration on the full lot and hoping it's reduced further than the offered reduction. Wonder if that's why they do it actually. Wonder if any poor tenants have just paid the first 'quote' and lost their entire deposit without question.

Have a read of some of the TDS case studies anyway - they seem pretty fair.

[Diana M]

Diana M might be able to answer too (she's a LL I believe) xx

Yes I am a Landlord although I'm tempted to plead the Fifth Amendment at times like these

I find tenants don't pay the last month's rent to avoid such situations telling the Landlord that they can deduct it from the deposit. Too often Landlords feel the need to 'spend' the deposit in preference to giving it back.

Anyway what I would first question is the actual cost of the work on the list. She should ask the Landlord (or their agent) to produce three quotes and also produce one (or three) of her own.

I would definitely question £15 for removal of a bra!

She should also be given the opportunity to 'make good' the perceived damage herself unless the tenancy agreement says different (which I doubt).

The devil will be in the detail of the tenancy agreement as to what can and cannot be deducted from the deposit.

Wear and tear tends to be accepted as 10% per year for replacement items.

Once a tenant makes a complaint to the relevant tenancy deposit scheme then the Landlord has to hand over the money to that scheme while arbitration takes place. It's amazing how quickly a Landlord will 'see reason' if they're parted from their money.

Or if the deposit is held in a custodial scheme they'll know they won't get it back until arbitration is done and dusted. In my experience these schemes tend to favour the Tenant (I've never had a complaint against me yet I hasten to add!).

If the agent is holding the deposit they'll probably have been getting interest on it in their bank account so it's in their interest to hang on to as much of it as possible for as long as possible.

My advice is for her to challenge every penny.

Here are some TDS case studies which make interesting reading >

https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/case-studies.html

Di

[R0b]

Thanks all, apparently the final version will be sent out today and will see how much more she apparently owes.

Will keep you updated!

[Crazy council]

I think they are supposed to have quotes, not just guess.

Also wear and tear, depends on the area in the property, and the type of tenant. Hallway carpets wear faster than bedroom carpets.

How long were they tenants?

As the others say, challange everything through the scheme thats its registerd with.

Ask them for quotes that they used, and contractors details.

If you feel you should have paid something, but not that, make them an offer, say £ 200 for stuff you accept, and do that formally.