Flatmate moved friend in. Refuses to split council tax 3 ways

[theinformalroman]

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with council tax for people who aren’t on the lease? I live in a house with two other students and a girl who works at a bar across town. Sometime in November we noticed that she moved her friend into her room with her. We weren’t consulted but we also weren’t very upset. They work weird hours and when they’re around they prefer not to interact with us as they’re self conscious about their English.

However, now we’ve been charged for council tax. I thought that we would split it three ways between me and the two other people who work (the girl and the friend she moved in in November). However, when I brought it up they said that she didn’t have to pay council tax because she isn’t on the lease. Is this true? They’ve recently stated that they’re moving back to Italy soon and were really shift about us not telling the landlord that they were. Is there anything stopping them from moving back to Italy and leaving me with the whole council tax bill?

[ostell]

I thought as students in a HMO then there is no liability for you to pay council tax, but I could be wrong. The two girls are not students and therefore the Council tax is purely their debt and they should be paying it all.

Being on the lease or not has no bearing on council tax

[wales01man]

Is this house a registered HMO? and are the girls registered with the council as tenants?
Nothing stopping them going back to Italy if they do not pay

[theinformalroman]

Hello. The two people that are students wouldnt be factored into the council tax it would just be me and the two other girls that work. It was probably unecessary to mention the other students as they're uninvolved financially in this. One of them is on the lease. The other its unclear. We never really put up a fuss when she moved in but one of the things they seemed scared about was us telling our landlord that there were two of them there and that they were leaving soon

So I called the council and had them add the third girl onto the council tax bill. But if they claim that she doesn't live there then I'm not sure what I can really do to prove to the council that she does unless they want to move in for a week and see that she doesn't have another home

[thedirtyhound]

My nephew was caught in the same situation. He moved into a house with some of his mates who were all students. He was not a student himself. However, when the council found out he was living there, a council tax bill was issued just because of him. He copped for a bill with just a 25% reduction, because he was classed as a single occupant. As his friends were students, they were exempt from paying anything. In your case, one has to wonder how the council became aware of the girls living there, but the fact that they are not named on the lease is irrelevant. If they lived there, they owe it. There is some good news for you though, because even if they have gone, the liability rests with them and not you. You do not have to pay their council tax bill, so do not let anyone, including the council, bully you into paying it. Give their forwarding address, if you have one, to the council and let them chase them. I stress again it is not your responsibility.

[warwick65]

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/2...ccupation_hmos

The above article explains it reasonably clearly. If the house is a HMO then the owner is liable for CT and not the tenants however I would imagine if it is in the lease they may have to pay.

In essence, if the LL is charging per room so that if one person moved out the others would not have to pick up that part of the bill then it is HMO

I know in parts of Birmingham around the University - there is now a planning regulation that requires planning permission to move a house over to a HMO

[lgfa92]

For council tax purposes planning permission or an otherwise unlawful use is immaterial, it will go on the facts on the situation when compared to that given in the council tax (liability for owners) regulations 1992 (as amended). The general basis of this is that if the there is not one tenancy for the whole property and/or there is not one rental liability for the property and/or it has been adopted for multiple occupancy then it will fall to be a HMO for council tax purposes, irrespective of whether it is a HMO for licencing purposes.

For the OP they need to fuly clarify what the tenancy for the house is - is it a room rental or a joint tenancy ?

If it doesn't fall to be a HMO for council tax purposes then;

A resident who is not on the lease would not be jointly liable for the council tax charge unless they were a partner of one of the tenants - they are not jointly liable in these case just by being resident in the property.

S6 of the LGFA92 provides that the the party with the highest interest under that section of the act is liable for the council tax charge (if more than one falls at the same level in the hierarchy then they can be jointly liable - special rules apply to students) - a resident falls lower in the hierarchy than a resident tenant and so cannot be jointly liable (unless they are a partner of the tenant) but they will be taken in to account when the charge is calculated.


Any agreement with the landlord over who will pay is simply a private arrangement and doesn't interest the council, they are interested only in legislation and how the facts apply. Most property that does fall to be a council tax HMO will have a clause by the landlord to recover monies from the occupiers.

[lgfa92]

My nephew was caught in the same situation. He moved into a house with some of his mates who were all students. He was not a student himself. However, when the council found out he was living there, a council tax bill was issued just because of him. He copped for a bill with just a 25% reduction, because he was classed as a single occupant. As his friends were students, they were exempt from paying anything.

The bill should only have been in his name if he was a joint tenant, otherwise the students had the higher interest and would have had to pay the charge (there's nothing in council tax legislation to prevent a student being liable to pay a charge even where they themselves are disregarded from the actual calculation).

In your case, one has to wonder how the council became aware of the girls living there, but the fact that they are not named on the lease is irrelevant. If they lived there, they owe it. There is some good news for you though, because even if they have gone, the liability rests with them and not you. You do not have to pay their council tax bill, so do not let anyone, including the council, bully you into paying it. Give their forwarding address, if you have one, to the council and let them chase them. I stress again it is not your responsibility.

For the purposes of council tax a demand notice does not apportion the charge between occupiers. If the OP falls to be jointly liable with other parties for the council tax charge under S6 of the LGFA92 then he is equally responsible for full payment and can be pursued for 100% of the outstanding monies - the position regarding any tenancy is key to determining the liability. If he falls jointly liable in this case and the others go abroad then then council can chase him for the full outstanding balance.

Hello. The two people that are students wouldnt be factored into the council tax it would just be me and the two other girls that work. It was probably unecessary to mention the other students as they're uninvolved financially in this. One of them is on the lease. The other its unclear. We never really put up a fuss when she moved in but one of the things they seemed scared about was us telling our landlord that there were two of them there and that they were leaving soon

So I called the council and had them add the third girl onto the council tax bill. But if they claim that she doesn't live there then I'm not sure what I can really do to prove to the council that she does unless they want to move in for a week and see that she doesn't have another home

If she is not on the tenancy and not the partner of one of the tenants then (in a property which is not a HMO) the other girl cannot be held jointly liable for the council tax charge - she will be taken in to account as a resident when it's calculated but that is where her responsibility would end under council tax legislation.

The property does sound like it is likely that it would fall to be a council tax HMO, you need to speak with the council regarding the exact situation. I've dealt with enough cases over the years to see the mess that can come out of it if it all goes wrong regarding payment.

[warwick65]

lgfa92

Not sure if your comments were aimed at me but this is the situation in parts of Birmingham
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downlo...e_october_2014

It seems that what they are demanding is a change of use application

Now some may see it as a ploy to raise more CT while other may see it as an attempt to stop the complete depopulation of the area particularly over the long vacation and the eyesore when LL's empty the contents of the houses into the front yards thus making it a more desirable residential area

This particular area has some wonderful Edwardian and Georgian (V) terraced houses with the potential to have real character

[lgfa92]

Just a general comment on council tax and HMO's - it's a common confusion that comes up occasionally where HMO's for licencing/planning purposes and council tax purposes get confused. Many people think that the two are always the same but, as the drafters of council tax legislation created their own definition, the two do not always match and give the same result for licencing/planning purposes and council tax purposes.

A property that's defined as a HMO for licencing/planning purposes will in many cases also be a HMO for council tax purposes but that's only by virtue of it also meeting the definition of a council tax HMO rather than the fact it is a licenced HMO. Lack of (or the granting of) planning permission or a HMO licence is no consideration when determining the council tax side.

Many areas seem to be struggling with the HMO aspect of rentals and have looked at tightening the rules as much as they can, I can't blame them being more cautious. Looks like parts of Birmingham have already moved on to this process and probably for the better.

[warwick65]

lgfa92

Ah , I understand what you were saying now, my bad

Yes Brum is taking a stance and while some may argue it has devalued their home as it has discouraged the buy to let investor who lets face it can get £500 per week for 48 weeks for a 3 bed house, others will feel it is long overdue. As a student I clearly have nothing against them as a species, they bring a lot of money and investment into the area, particularly the research Russel group Universities but I have lived in various student towns, Loughborough, Nottingham and sort of Birmingham and they do definitely run parallel to the local economy, many students have no idea, and probably never will, of what it is like for those that are born and bred in the area. It is sadly these very students who will come to be the movers and shakers in Government and Industry. There is a long way to go to provide equality of opportunity in HE = one of my many hobby horses