Sapphire v Halifax Mortgage

Filched a letter from somewhere and have sent off a claim for over £2 K, lets see what happens next.

sapphire

[Turboman]

Mortgage

Hi Saphire

Is it same LBA as Banks?

Turbo

[Sapphire]

Sorry for dely in replying this is the letter that I sent:

Request for repayment of charges

Dear Mr Patton,

Our request

We are writing to ask you to refund the charges which you have levied from our account in respect of late payment fees, and others to the sum of £2036.53, (Please find enclosed schedule of charges detailing dates, amounts and interest). We now understand that such fees are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer Regulations.

In the case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract as oppose to a charge which represents a penalty. This law was confirmed and upheld in Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79. A charge will be held to be a penalty if the sum stipulated for is extravagant and unconscionable in amount in comparison to the greatest loss that could conceivably be proved to have followed from the breach. A penalty clause is void in its entirety and unenforceable.

In addition your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). Our account falls within the ambit of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as we are consumers. Your charges constitute an unfair penalty under Schedule 2 of the said Regulations which provide an indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair. Under paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 this specifically includes terms which have the object of requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation. We would vigorously contend that this is the position regarding the fee of 2036.53 which you deemed fit to apply to our account.

Furthermore a fee levied requiring us to indemnify you against any commercial risk to yourself in offering us a reduced interest rate in order to attract our custom is also contrary to s.4 Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. We are confident that a court is likely to consider this clause to be unreasonable within s.11 of the said Act as a large commercial institution such as yourselves is in a far better placed position than us as consumers to bear the burden of the vicissitudes of business.

I would like to bring your attention to the following statement by The Office of Fair Trading:

"A term in a mortgage agreement which requires the borrower to pay more for breaching the contract terms than actual costs and losses caused to the lender by the breach (or a genuine pre-estimate of that) is likely to be regarded as an unfair penalty and to be unenforceable both at common law and (in a consumer mortgage) under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. A redemption charge may be regarded as a penalty even if it is expressed as the price for exercising a right rather than a consequence of breaking the agreement."

We believe that the charges you have levied of £2036.53 for late payment, return of debit fees and other chargesfar exceed any true cost to yourself as a result of our breach and any genuine pre-estimate you could conceivably reach. If you disagree, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put to as a result of our breaches, in order to reassure us that your charges really do reflect your costs.

Your responsibilities


We would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that we took out the loan. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

We are frankly shocked that you have operated our account in this way as we had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise. We consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived us into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented us from asserting our rights until now.

Our targets to resolve this matter

We really hope that this matter can be resolved amicably and without the need for redress to the courts. Thus we are asking that you refund the charges which have unlawfully been levied on our account. Failure to refund all the money unlawfully taken from us will result in us taking further action. We will give you 14 days to reply accepting, unconditionally, our request in principle and letting us know a date by which we will receive payment. If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, we shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. We believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

After that, there will be no further communication from us and we shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline. Thus take this letter as 28 days written notice of our intention to issue a court claim should you not comply with my request. I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

Yours faithfully,


sapphire

[Paule]

Isnt Ken Patton the Data Manager?

[Sapphire]

Ooops my mistake, thanks for that I shall send it again to the right dept.

Thanks for that Pkea

sapphire

[Paule]

Ooops my mistake, thanks for that I shall send it again to the right dept.

Thanks for that Pkea

sapphire

It will probably get passed internally to the right dept anyway, why not give em a call to see if theyve received it and save urself a stamp first

[Sapphire]

It must have been passed to the right dept afterall I got this reply this morning :

Dear Sapphire
Thank you for your letter dated 6th July 2007.
I am sorry to learn of your concerns regarding the above mortgage.
We're keen to deal with your concerns as quickly as possible. A customer relations manager will investigate the points you have raised and you will receive a reply shortly, but certainly no later than 4 weeks.
You will find enclosed a copy of our leaflet, which tells you how will will handle your complain.
Your concerns will be dealt with as quickly as possible, but to help us deal more efficiently with your enquiry please quote xxxxxxxxx when writing or telephoning the number at the top of this letter.

Carly Burnet.

[Turboman]

Halifax Mgte Charges

Hi Sapphire

Thanks for sharing info--I am atill trying to extract all info (got some from em--but not all)..

I've claimed a bit (over the "other road" for std charges) but this is a new dimension for me--especially as we can go back 12 yrs.

While helping Simian as purely a computer technical advisorf - I am now understanding the theory of possiby claiming Compounded Interest at a "rate I have yet to determine for Mortgages"--& go back 12 yrs.

How are you approaching your scenario?

A claim for 6 yrs initially & then another one pre-6 yrs ,or all at once?

And what %?

THe exit fees by the way are done with 1 phone call --easy peasy! ( A special menu option even--£135 for a 2 minute phone call!!)

Regards

Turbo

[Sapphire]

Hiya Turboman, to be honest all that compound interest etc etc confuses the hell out of me and gives me a massive headache. Its ok for the financial whizzkids out there, but simple little old me is going for the straight charges plus 8%, if I get that I'll be a happy bunny. Lets see what happens now, I'm not holding my breath.

sapphire

[Turboman]

Re: Sapphire v Halifax Mortgage

Hi Saphire

Still not got all info yet--but Halifax "have ordered it"

Hows your claim going -as mine will be similar?

Turbo

[Sapphire]

Re: Sapphire v Halifax Mortgage

Got this letter yesterday:

Further to our letter dated 6th July, I'm sorry that you have not yet had a full response to your concerns.
We're still investigating your complaint, and you will receive a response from us as soon as possible, but certainly no later that 31st August.
Our complaints leaflet, which we sent to you previously, explains how we will handly your complaint.
Your concerns will be dealt with as quickly as possible, but to help us deal more efficiently with your enquiry, please quote ............... when writing or telephoning the number at the top of this letter.
Yours etc etc

Looks like I'm still playing the waiting game

sapphire

[Turboman]

Re: Sapphire v Halifax Mortgage

Thanks for reply Sapphire

Its a long haul then--but in your letter you gave em 14 days then said LBA for another 14 days if not satisfactory response.????

End of August will be 65 days from your prelimary letter .

I am going to a 14 day LBA with no prelim as they've had 3 reminders for info already-each one also asking for full refunds of any charges (4 month saga already but I'm not going down the Estimated route) fairly confident.

BUT-on another Halifax current account for relative--got a defence from solicitor--rather than customer relations saying will defend & the rolling-over a day later.--so they may be getting ready to invoke stays.

They shouldn't do it for Credit Cards (but a few Banks/courts are doing)-lets hope that they don't try it with Mortgages

Turbo

[Sapphire]

Re: Sapphire v Halifax Mortgage

I understand what you are saying Turboman, I know its way past the 14 days, but until I have got my bills etc up to date at end Sept I don't really have extra money to be investing with the courts etc. So I'm just letting it slide and hopefully they will come up with an offer without be having to go to the added expense. I have a few to do and will add up to a fair few quid, so basically I am biding my time hun.

sapphire

[Turboman]

Re: Sapphire v Halifax Mortgage

Hi Saphire

Did the Halifax pay out?

And have people had any successes recently on Mortgage Claims (not ERC) ?

Surprisingly, all the sites don't have much activity on Mortgage claims?

Turbo

[thephoenix]

Re: Sapphire v Halifax Mortgage

Take a look here Turboman

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ead.php?t=2249