Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

[Crazy council]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

Hi

arrears of £1274 less deposit £700 lave rent arrears of £ 574 pluis cost. Your deposit comes off rent first, then disbursments.

Some of the othere costs you mention both have to be proved,and would depend on the wording of the orrigional TC, for example

. £366 is rubbish removal, full clean, change of locks, plus £290

Are these terms in the tenancy contract, did you get quotes, and evidence of the actions

So given all you said and the above, do you think I am wasting my time?

yes, without tracing the tenant ( not hard ) you wasting costs through the solsitor, i would not trust any solicitor thats advised you the above. and suspect they have advised you just to charge you.

If you knowingly issue a claim against a persom at a wrong address, and that person take an issue with itm, your solisitor could be in real trouble, and you could bear the costs. At the most you might expect a forwarding service to be in affect for 12 or 14 months. After that, it may be argued that you have knowi9ngly sent it to the worng address with the intent of harming the ex tenant.

just a note

The bailiff was instructed to attend to take possession on 29 Feb 2012.
The last payment made by the council housing benefit department was 12 March, 2012. They then subsequetly reclaimed back the overpyment from 1 March to 12 March, 2012, which I disputed (not the dates but their figures) they eventually agreeed,and the amount was finally sellted by me on 25 June, 2012.

29th feb is the last date you can iether charge the rent for or acsept payment from the council for.

[Diana M]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

When did the tenant last make a payment of acknowledgment to the debt, when was the tenancy formally terminated.

nem

That's not relevant.

Section 19 of the Limitation Act 1980 provides that arrears of rent cannot be recovered when six years have elapsed since the arrears became due and Section 29(6) says that the payment of part of rent does not extend the time period.

Section 19 > https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/section/19

Section 29 > https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/section/29

The SB Cause of Action for rent arrears does not run from the last payment or acknowledgement of the rent, and the termination/expiry date of the tenancy agreement is immaterial.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

Debt purchasers/ collectors do this all the time it is permissible to use the last known address there may be a forwarding service in place.

nem

Only if they can prove that they used due diligence to check that the person lives at that address and they genuinely had no way of checking otherwise.

Debt purchasers/creditors/banks have access to the CRA and if they don't search the debtor's file before issuing a claim then they may find themselves in some difficulty when defending a set aside application.

The maximum time for Royal Mail Redirection is four years so they can't argue that (forwarding service) was the reason for attempting 'deemed service' five years later.

In this case the OP knows for a fact that the Tenant doesn't live at the address and so far has not said what efforts have been made to update their records.

The fact that the OP as Landlord actively evicted the Tenant is proof positive that they know the Tenant doesn't live there.

If I were acting for the ex-tenant I would be advising them to use the Eviction Warrant and the Possession Order as evidence.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

Some of the othere costs you mention both have to be proved,and would depend on the wording of the orrigional TC

. . . Are these terms in the tenancy contract, did you get quotes, and evidence of the actions

I agree.

In fact the ex-Tenant may start a counterclaim if they receive a claim which could open a whole can of worms.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

did you try to enforce that order at all ?

In post # 10 the OP says that they deducted the "possession costs" from the ex-tenant's deposit so perhaps these were the costs ordered?

the tenant paid a deposit which I reclaimed via stat dec. £366 is rubbish removal, full clean, change of locks, plus £290 possession fees and arrears of £1274 less deposit £700 makes amount owing £1230.

. . . . The only court order was for possession costs.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

So given all you said and the above, do you think I am wasting my time?

I can't comment since you already have instructed solicitors.

However consider whether taking action may attract more problems than it solves.

For example, since this was over five years ago you will have submitted your tax return and presumably the unpaid rent would have been declared as a loss. Do you want to revisit that issue now (if you recover the rent arrears) because it will become time consuming?

Di

[nemesis45]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

Only if they can prove that they used due diligence to check that the person lives at that address and they genuinely had no way of checking otherwise.

Debt purchasers/creditors/banks have access to the CRA and if they don't search the debtor's file before issuing a claim then they may find themselves in some difficulty when defending a set aside application.

The maximum time for Royal Mail Redirection is four years so they can't argue that (forwarding service) was the reason for attempting 'deemed service' five years later.

In this case the OP knows for a fact that the Tenant doesn't live at the address and so far has not said what efforts have been made to update their records.

The fact that the OP as Landlord actively evicted the Tenant is proof positive that they know the Tenant doesn't live there.

If I were acting for the ex-tenant I would be advising them to use the Eviction Warrant and the Possession Order as evidence.

Di

Yes but they still do it and get away with literally on a daily basis it is naïve to believe otherwise!

[Diana M]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

but they still do it and get away with literally on a daily basis it is naïve to believe otherwise!

They don't get away with it in court when my firm is instructed.

I may be many things, but naive isn't one of them.

Diana M

[Diana M]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

When the tenant stopped paying rent you were able to take action to recover that rent, which you did, and took possession of the property.

The difficulty is that the OP only sought a Possession Order under Section 21 which is a 'no fault' ground where the Landlord is entitled to take back possession of their property once the fixed term has ended without any reason being needed (subject to serving a valid Section 21 Notice). The OP did not take action to recover the rent arrears at that point.

Perhaps they should have also sought a money judgment under Ground 8 at the same time.

However it can take months to evict a Tenant (which took place on 29th February 2012) and Housing Benefit was being paid direct to the Landlord by the Local Authority throughout that period so it seems that the exact amount of rent arrears would not have been known when the OP sought possession since HB is paid retrospectively and courts know/accept that (mostly).

The OP says they had taken a Deposit so if the rent arrears at the time of the Possession Order were less than the Tenant's Deposit any application under Ground 8 may not have succeeded.

If the amount stated on the Section 8 Notice is incorrect it would have failed in court.

Then the added complication is there was the issue of HB overpayments which wasn't resolved until 25th June 2012. HB payments direct to the Landlord are seen as rent payments by the Tenant.

Di

[missmooch]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

Thanks for taking time out all of you to reply. I really do appreciate it!

A few things:
1)I was not intending to use a sol any further for this. I was hoping to use mcol and do it myself. However I do live abroad so would need a sol to represent me should a counterclaim be made - Di maybe I need to email you on this?
2) Ast states 'pay reasonable costs for new keys if not returned when tenant moves out', 'remove all rubbish at end of tenancy', 'leave property in same state of cleanliness at end of tenancy', and I have invoices and rent statement for all of this.
3)I am still unsure from the discussions if I would be considered time barred. Di are you saying 25 June 2018 could be my deadline?
4) If not, I have found 2 letters from Citizens Advice Bureau, acting on behalf of the tenant. One is dated 10 Feb, 12 before the tenant had left, the second dated 27 March, 12. I never responded as the tenant had been total nightmare throughout the tenancy. (Eg, Threatened to take me to court because it took me 2 days to arrange a boiler repair (the repair was actioned immediately, it was time was spent waiting of a replacement part that took 2 days). When I finally got access to the property there was no front door. The police had damaged the door and removed it due to forceful access following on from complaints from the neighbours of animal neglect by the tenant. Tenant had basically gone on holiday and left pets in the back yard. She had a partner who had a reputation, so I really didnt want to engage anymore than I had to, and at the time I was just glad she was out). Anyway the crux ofthe CAB letters were asking for the deposit back (cheek!). First letter states they wanted a rent account, details of all hb payments paid in advance, and proof I had lodged the deposit correctly (as I had applied for it to be returned, given the date of the posession order was 2 Feb 12). The second letter states unless we hear from you in the next 7 days we assume rent account is up to date and to confirm the deposit was returned to the tenant. Would this be deemed in any way an acknowledgement of the debt?

Thanks for any help (and hope I have been clear).

[wales01man]

Re: Help! Do I have to resend lbc?

Biggest problem still remains that you have no address except the one you know that they are not at to send any summons to. Next is there any chance they will pay if you win in Court without knowing where they are how would you achieve that.
Taking action now is a gamble your choice