Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

[mio]

A New year's day dog walk went horribly wrong when I encountered an over-zealous civil enforcement officer in Victoria Park, Tower Hamlets. Here's the chain of events.

It's New Years Day and we take the dogs for a morning walk. My dog poos, I bag it, bin it and continue our walk.

About 20 to 30 minutes later a civil enforcement offer shouts me over. I put my (female) dog on lead and approach.

He accuses me of failing to remove a dog poo and I tell him he has made a mistake but if he can show me a poo my dog has done I will get rid of it. I am sure he is wrong. He refuses and demands my details repeatedly and reads me my rights. He wants to give me a ticket and/ or have me arrested.

As he's already told me where he says the incident took place, but refused to allow me to go there to see evidence, so I walk to that location, against his will and my friend begins filming. Part 1 video on Youtube

If, in the highly unlikely event my dog has done a second sneaky poo somewhere I want to remove it and if, in the more likely event she hasn't, the guy will have no evidence and we can go home and enjoy the new year.

The enforcement officer calls for Police back-up and continues to demand my details

I provide details - I have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. He doesn't have time to write them down because he's too busy reading me rights and threatening me with arrest.

The enforcement officer continues to demand details and refuses to show me the poo. We now are convinced there is no poo and that this guy is making it up in order to meet his ticket quota.

I am informed we are now being monitored on CCTV and on radio by the Police. "Good" I thought - "This is crazy".

More pleading with the officer to please evidence his claims and "SHOW US THE POO!" I
We stop filming part 1.

About 10 minutes of "SHOW ME THE POO" later, he declares "The poo was here, but it is gone now."

The enforcement officer then wonders off looking at the floor and in an area nearby he does indeed locate a poo. Part 2 begins. Part 2 video on YouTube

"Right then," I say "I don't believe this poo has anything to do with me, but because you do, and because I respect your authority, I'll remove it." This is not an admission of anything, other than that I am a responsible dog owner and would be devastated if I had in fact missed my dog having another poo.

I have a pocket full of dog poo bags every where I go, because I clean up after my dog! If there is a problem in Tower Hamlets with dog poo in the street, it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my dog.

I was then followed around and out of the park by the enforcement officer and two more of his civil enforcement colleagues, while he continued to radio for Police back-up and continued to harass me for my details, which I had already provided.

Outside the park, the Police arrived. They said it was not a criminal matter and that they had no problem with either me or my dog. Due to running out of memory on the iPhone, we haven't got a video for part three.

I have since requested the bodycam footage from Tower Hamlets Council but this has not been responded too. I have also made a complaint against the CEO. The council are backing him up so far.

My questions are:

1 - Was I legally obliged to give my details to the CEO? (I have been told by several others that I was not)
2 - How do I issue a claim against Tower Hamlets Council for the harassment and distress he caused me?

Thanks for any advice.

[teaboy2]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

Hi Mio

No your not obliged to give your details to Civil enforcement officers, just like you do not have to give details to police, except in certain circumstances. Its only an offence to give false details to police, but not an offence to withhold your details.

I have PM'd Bluebottle for you, he will probably be the best to advise on taking the council to court for harassment, as the CEO may have a defence under section 1 of the protection from harassment act 1997 - Though personally as he was involved in falsely alleging you had committed an offence, then i do not think such defence would apply. As he was not acting to prevent or detect crime, but acting to defraud you by falsely alleging you had committed an offence in order to fraudulently issue you a monetary fine for an offence that had never occurred - No doubt to increase his own pay bonus.

In regards to the Body Cam footage - Best option would be to issue a SAR to the council. You can find a template here - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ur-information

You will need to edit the letter to request footage of the body cam making it clear that such footage amounts to digital data storage, and as you are the person in the footage, you are therefore the data subject of said digital footage and have a right to a copy of such footage.

[bluebottle]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

Hi Mio,

Teaboy2 has asked me to look in on this thread.

Officer Khan? Sure you don't mean Citizen Khan? The way this jobsworth is behaving in the YouTube video is more in keeping with his namesake character on the BBC TV comedy show.

Looking at your post and the YouTube footage, I would say that Citizen Khan's behaviour amounts to harassment under the Public Order 1986, but this is compounded by him making unwarranted demands, because he refuses to show you the offending dog excrement and attempts to enforce his demands by threats of arrest. As the police correctly told you - and I speak as a retired police officer - dog fouling is an environmental health matter, not a matter for the police.

If anything, Citizen Khan's behaviour goes from the sublime to the ridiculous to something a lot more sinister and serious.

I agree with TB's advice to serve a Subject Access Request under Section 7, Data Protection Act 1998 on London Borough of Tower Hamlets for the bodycam footage. In any case, they have a legal obligation to provide you with the footage as they are accusing you of committing an offence.

It might be useful to remind London Borough of Tower Hamlets of their obligations under Article 6, European Convention on Human Rights (Right to A Fair Hearing). This means that if they accuse you of an offence, they must provide you with the evidence and the opportunity to challenge the allegations. This right is inalienable, meaning it cannot be taken away from you, and inviolate, meaning London Borough of Tower Hamlets cannot breach that right. Article 17 ensures your rights under ECHR cannot be destroyed and Article 18 prevents your Convention rights being restricted except under certain specified circumstances. Section 6, Human Rights Act 1998 makes it unlawful for a public authority or body corporate or person acting as a public authority or performing the functions of a public authority - London Borough of Tower Hamlets, Citizen Khan and his co-stars all fall under the scope of "public authority" in your case - to violate your Convention rights under ECHR. In a nutshell, London Borough of Tower Hamlet's refusal to provide you with bodycam footage is unlawful. Citizen Khan's allegations without evidence are also unlawful. A person simply cannot make allegations against another unless they are prepared to substantiate such allegations with evidence.

As regards taking London Borough of Tower Hamlets, Citizen Khan and his co-stars to court for harassment - Incidentally, making false allegations against another amount to harassment - I would recommend you consult with a legal professional. Local authorities tend to take matters a lot more seriously when legal professionals get involved and a legal professional should be able to advise you as to your options.

Hope this helps.

Bluebottle

[mio]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

Thank you both for your advice, it does indeed help. You certainly know your stuff!

I will be making a Subject Access request to Tower Hamlets using the template kindly linked above. And I will continue to press the Council on the conduct of the CEO Khan because he put me through a lot of stress and I want to make sure that this is not allowed to happen to other people. Your advice is very helpful because it means I can do this with confidence, thanks.

I'll post any developments here, and maybe some more questions, depending on how it goes.

I've never seen Citizen Khan of the BBC, but I am sure he is a much nicer and more credible character than his THEO namesake.

[mio]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

Also, I love that your forum is dog-themed!:beagle:

[bluebottle]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

Citizen Khan is a comedy programme on BBC TV, set in Birmingham, about an Asian businessman whose behaviour is not dissimilar to that of the CEO in your YouTube video. You might wish to consider renaming your YouTube video "Citizen Khan Gets A Job With Tower Hamlets Council". I can't guarantee it will increase the number of "hits", but it may draw the attention of the elected members of Tower Hamlets Council to the fact they have an employee who is a loose cannon and a bully working for them and need to act quickly before he lands them in the proverbial, in the legal sense, with an order for costs and damages to boot. Also, it begs the question as to how many others have suffered similar treatment at the hand of Citizen Khan.

[teaboy2]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

Also, I love that your forum is dog-themed!:beagle:

Well we beagles do not like seeing our alsatian friends being picked on by dog wardens :tongue2:.

Citizen Khan is a comedy programme on BBC TV, set in Birmingham, about an Asian businessman whose behaviour is not dissimilar to that of the CEO in your YouTube video. You might wish to consider renaming your YouTube video "Citizen Khan Gets A Job With Tower Hamlets Council". I can't guarantee it will increase the number of "hits", but it may draw the attention of the elected members of Tower Hamlets Council to the fact they have an employee who is a loose cannon and a bully working for them and need to act quickly before he lands them in the proverbial, in the legal sense, with an order for costs and damages to boot. Also, it begs the question as to how many others have suffered similar treatment at the hand of Citizen Khan.

Not sure that would be wise, due to intellectual property rights. But i like you thinking .

[bluebottle]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

The reference to changing the title of the YouTube video to "Citizen Khan Gets A Job With Tower Hamlets Council" is tongue-in-cheek, TB. However, the behaviour of the fictitious character and the CEO in Mio's YouTube video is not dissimilar. It does make me wonder, however, if it would be worth Mio emailing the elected members of London Borough of Tower Hamlets with a link to the video so they can see for themselves what sort of individuals they have working for them and how they bring the authority and borough into disrepute with their behaviour. A short message to the effect that Mio is considering legal action might be what is needed to focus the minds of the elected members of London Borough of Tower Hamlets on dealing with the CEO and investigate just what is going on within the section he is working in.

[teaboy2]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

The reference to changing the title of the YouTube video to "Citizen Khan Gets A Job With Tower Hamlets Council" is tongue-in-cheek, TB. However, the behaviour of the fictitious character and the CEO in Mio's YouTube video is not dissimilar. It does make me wonder, however, if it would be worth Mio emailing the elected members of London Borough of Tower Hamlets with a link to the video so they can see for themselves what sort of individuals they have working for them and how they bring the authority and borough into disrepute with their behaviour. A short message to the effect that Mio is considering legal action might be what is needed to focus the minds of the elected members of London Borough of Tower Hamlets on dealing with the CEO and investigate just what is going on within the section he is working in.

Agreed, certainly worth a shot.

Yes i know your reference was tongue in cheek mate.

[bluebottle]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

It was just so delicious and so appropriate! Lol!

[Guest]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

It is a criminal matter though isn't it(in general)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/16/section/64

[teaboy2]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

It is a criminal matter though isn't it(in general)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/16/section/64

But OP is not subject to any dog control order neither was she issued with one, it was a fixed penalty notice the CEO was trying to give her (but there was no evidence of any alleged offence produced by the CEO) - Plus the council is responsible for enforcing FPN via prosecution, not police or crown prosecution service. So its is a civil offence not a criminal one.

So if Mia had opted to accept the FPN and chose for the matter to be heard in court instead of paying fixed penalty notice, then she would win due to no evidence other than hearsay. The council know this, hence why they have refused to provide her with the body cam footage.

She is under no obligation to provide her details to a CEO for issuing of a FPN.

[Guest]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

But OP is not subject to any dog control order neither was she issued with one, it was a fixed penalty notice the CEO was trying to give her (but there was no evidence of any alleged offence produced by the CEO) - Plus the council is responsible for enforcing FPN via prosecution, not police or crown prosecution service. So its is a civil offence not a criminal one.

So if Mia had opted to accept the FPN and chose for the matter to be heard in court instead of paying fixed penalty notice, then she would win due to no evidence other than hearsay. The council know this, hence why they have refused to provide her with the body cam footage.

She is under no obligation to provide her details to a CEO for issuing of a FPN.

I think the statute is enforce via means of a local government regulation, but I think you will find that it is criminally actionable.

[Guest]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

Quick Google gives this for this particular council

http://www.solihull.gov.uk/transport/dogfouling.htm

Throughout Solihull, the person in charge of a dog has a duty to remove the dog's faeces from public land. The Fouling of Land by Dogs (Solihull) Order 2007, made under the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005, makes it is a criminal offence to fail to do so.

[bluebottle]

Re: Show me the poo! - Over reactivive civil enforcement officer

Is the matter triable before a magistrates court, a crown court or both? Also, do not discount the fact that local authorities are increasingly being shown to be disingenuous and/or dishonest. I would not take what Solihull Council say as being a statement of fact. What they may claim is a criminal offence may not be in the eyes of the law.