Small claim advice

[Dinky dinks]

Hi


Hoping for a bit of advice. I'm about to make a small claim. A guy who has does work for us in the past has not supplied goods we have paid for. He did a lot of work on a house refurb but is yet to supply goods to the tune of 399 + VAT that were paid for last Jan. We have emailed, called, texted for months asking politely (yes i've kept them all) but he's ignoring us. I had enough and emailed him in Dec saying if he didn't refund by 31/12/13 I would start a small claim in the new year. I have the original invoice and a copy of our bank statement showing full payment to him last Jan.


Problem is although his website is still up and running we can't find any record of the company on companies house (looked in dissolved names too). I know he started another company in June 2013 under a slightly different name. My question is if i claim under his name do we have a case, does it have to be the company name? The invoices we have show the company name but he also signs each one with his name too. VAT was charged and there is a VAT number on the invoice. It was his company and he worked alone. The website just shows a VAT number but no company number and not showing on companies house. The new company does show on companies house with his new address.


I fear that if I do it on the company name it will come back as dissolved and I'll have no recourse. I know he has moved house also and his old address is still listed as the contact for the company we used.


Any advice?


Thank you

[enquirer]

Re: Small claim advice

If there is no trace of his company, then that suggests that he was either using a trading name, or fraudulently passing himself of as a company (do the documents actually use 'Ltd', or 'Limited'? Is there a company number?).

If Companies House confirm no trace, then claim against him.

If it is a company, and the documents are in the company name, then that is who your relationship is with.

If the company is dissolved, then you may be out of luck, although you could inform Companies House that the accounts offered were inaccurate and see what they have to say. HMRC might be interested too. If it is in the process of dissolution, you can block it.

If the company is insolvent, then if you can show fraudulent trading (they know it's bust and they should stop trading, but don't), then you can move against the directors themselves. However, this is unlikely to be justified for £399.

Check with HMRC to see if the VAT number is valid, and if so, to who or what it comes back to.

[Dinky dinks]

Re: Small claim advice

If there is no trace of his company, then that suggests that he was either using a trading name, or fraudulently passing himself of as a company (do the documents actually use 'Ltd', or 'Limited'? Is there a company number?).

If Companies House confirm no trace, then claim against him.

If it is a company, and the documents are in the company name, then that is who your relationship is with.

If the company is dissolved, then you may be out of luck, although you could inform Companies House that the accounts offered were inaccurate and see what they have to say. HMRC might be interested too. If it is in the process of dissolution, you can block it.

If the company is insolvent, then if you can show fraudulent trading (they know it's bust and they should stop trading, but don't), then you can move against the directors themselves. However, this is unlikely to be justified for £399.

Check with HMRC to see if the VAT number is valid, and if so, to who or what it comes back to.

None of the documents use Ltd or Limited. It's just a company name and a VAT number. I've noticed the phone number on the website has been changed to his new landline so I think it's still trading. I think my best recourse is to claim against him personally then. There is no trace at all on companies house. The documents are in the company name but he also signs them with his full name. It doesn't come up when searching for dissolved companies. Thanks

[wales01man]

Re: Small claim advice

Before you waste any money on legal action find out if its a LTD company or sole trader you are claiming against,phone HMRC and check who the VAT number belongs to?

[Dinky dinks]

Re: Small claim advice

Before you waste any money on legal action find out if its a LTD company or sole trader you are claiming against,phone HMRC and check who the VAT number belongs to?

Thanks, I called HMRC and have been told the VAT number is not valid. It's 10 digits, not 9. I've double checked it and it is definitely the number on the invoices and is still the number listed on his website.

What do I do now? She said it could be a mistake but I'm not so sure considering the issues we are having with him. I think I now have no choice but to claim against him as an individual as it's clearly not on companies house as a ltd company.

What should I do re the VAT number, anything?


Thanks

[wales01man]

Re: Small claim advice

Speak to the VAT people again if you have an invoice with that number on it they must act,

As for next action you must somehow check they are who they say they are check address or any other thing you can find

[Dinky dinks]

Re: Small claim advice

If we've paid him vat and he's not vat registered and his number is bogus can we claim back what her charged us in VAT. Not sure how this works. Thanks

[Dinky dinks]

Re: Small claim advice

HMRC weren't interested, just said maybe it's a mistake and told me to call trading standards!

I know his name and home address are valid. He spoke to us about moving house when he was working for us. His Facebook page us public so I had a look at it and he has photos of his new van with signwriting for the new/additional company name.

[wales01man]

Re: Small claim advice

If this new company is not limited he is a sole tradergo after him if its a LTD COMPANY check with companies house webcheck to find it its so if by chance it us check when in was formed if after your dealings with him hes the target.

[enquirer]

Re: Small claim advice

Thanks, I called HMRC and have been told the VAT number is not valid. It's 10 digits, not 9. I've double checked it and it is definitely the number on the invoices and is still the number listed on his website.

What do I do now? She said it could be a mistake but I'm not so sure considering the issues we are having with him. I think I now have no choice but to claim against him as an individual as it's clearly not on companies house as a ltd company.

What should I do re the VAT number, anything?

This is fraud.

He is pretending to be VAT registered when he isn't, then charging VAT and putting it in his pocket. Write this all up and send it to HMRC. Include photocopies of his invoices.

Notify Companies House of the situation as well - they should be interested to learn of his new 'company'. I would be inclined to consider involving the Police, too.

[Dinky dinks]

Re: Small claim advice

This is fraud.

He is pretending to be VAT registered when he isn't, then charging VAT and putting it in his pocket. Write this all up and send it to HMRC. Include photocopies of his invoices.

Notify Companies House of the situation as well - they should be interested to learn of his new 'company'. I would be inclined to consider involving the Police, too.

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have been back on companies house and have found out the following information:

The company we dealt with does not come up under any search, not even dissolved.

The "new" company comes up and was incorporated in July last year. Changes were made on 16th Jan this year, a man who i think is his dad is listed as director and his partner/wife was terminated as director. The address for the company was changed from his home address to another address that I'm not familiar with (possibly his dads)

There is a company listed with a very similar name to the one we dealt with, says nature of business is repair & maintenance of other transport equipment not elsewhere classified??? he is an aerial and av systems installer so makes no sense. His wife/partner is listed as the only director.Status is active but it says DORMANT in the accounts section.

So to clarify, the exact same of the company we dealt with is not listed on companies house but two similar companies are. His name appears nowhere on these company details but his wife and possibly his dad do. The address was very recently changed from his home address to a different address.

Any reasons spring to mind why these changes were made? Can I go after him as an individual then do you think, he was clearly trading as a sole trader if I can't find the company name. Do you think it is possible when I do my small claim for the goods to also claim for the VAT he wrongly charged us. That amounts to £1400 so worth pursuing if I can.

I am going to contact HMRC and also trading standards. My husband was going to get a law firm that does stuff for his work to look into it but the amount was so small we thought we'd do a small claims but if we are now possibly claiming back the VAT to then I might be tempted to let the experts deal with it.

Thank you again for your help.

[enquirer]

Re: Small claim advice

Still more frauds, it seems.

In your dealings with him, he certainly appears to have been acting as a Sole Trader, so that's who to go after.

Companies often change Directors, and the dodgier they are, the more often they change. Interesting to see that he's keeping his name off, but thoughtfully setting his wife and family up for a fall.

Changing the Registered Office is often a bad sign too. Have you checked where the new 'office' is? If it's some distance away, then use Google Maps and send the Orange Man down the street (the Bing version is smoother, but coverage is less complete). It may be nothing more than a mail drop.

Definately claim the VAT back - the court would be most interested to learn of the VAT fraud. Get it in writing from HMRC that he is not VAT registered, and attach a copy of their letter to your claim.

[Dinky dinks]

Re: Small claim advice

Still more frauds, it seems.

In your dealings with him, he certainly appears to have been acting as a Sole Trader, so that's who to go after.

Companies often change Directors, and the dodgier they are, the more often they change. Interesting to see that he's keeping his name off, but thoughtfully setting his wife and family up for a fall.

Changing the Registered Office is often a bad sign too. Have you checked where the new 'office' is? If it's some distance away, then use Google Maps and send the Orange Man down the street (the Bing version is smoother, but coverage is less complete). It may be nothing more than a mail drop.

Definately claim the VAT back - the court would be most interested to learn of the VAT fraud. Get it in writing from HMRC that he is not VAT registered, and attach a copy of their letter to your claim.

The address on the AV systems company is a residential house, most probably his dads house as he is down as director. The other one is an office complex in an industrial estate. Small offices to let, called Viewpoint Office Village. Could be an office or just somewhere where his post goes or maybe a family member works there.

Up until a couple of weeks ago the address was his home address.

We'll go after him as an individual and see what happens. I do appreciate all the advice.

Thanks

[CleverClogs]

Re: Small claim advice

Even if you obtain judgement against that rogue, you'd still need to be able to enforce the judgement and make the bugger pay up.

Had you considered sending him a Statutory Demand, which carries with it the threat that you'd then petition for him to be declared bankrupt if he didn't pay or get it set aside? Bankruptcy wouldn't be possible for a debt of less than £750 in England (£3000 in Scotland) but, if you're also claiming for the VAT he improperly charged, that shouldn't be a problem.

If he were made bankrupt, he could not be a company director.

[Dinky dinks]

Re: Small claim advice

Even if you obtain judgement against that rogue, you'd still need to be able to enforce the judgement and make the bugger pay up.

Had you considered sending him a Statutory Demand, which carries with it the threat that you'd then petition for him to be declared bankrupt if he didn't pay or get it set aside? Bankruptcy wouldn't be possible for a debt of less than £750 in England (£3000 in Scotland) but, if you're also claiming for the VAT he improperly charged, that shouldn't be a problem.

If he were made bankrupt, he could not be a company director.

I've never heard of a Statutory Demand, we've passed the info on to a lawyer at my husbands work so hopefully we'll get good advice as to what to do.

I agree even we obtain a judgement we still have to make him pay. I know you get use enforcement officers for a fee of around £60 but that's only useful if he has the assets. I suspect his vehicles and stock are owned by the companies so couldn't be seized for a personal judgement. Its hard to know what to do.