How hard can it be

[steveeasy]

Well I have been trying in vain to get some definitive direction for over A year. In October 2015 I went to a solicitor to get advise how I could sue a former landlord over a lost award of 125,000. Yes nine months later a written response came back to me suggesting I go find a barrister to advise. This came with a bill for £1,000. nine months later, perhaps he needed to top up the cash flow.


I booked a meeting in London 4 weeks ago with a direct access barrister who invited me down to London. we booked the train tickets Monday, £260.00 I have just 30 mins ago receved a request for £950 to be paid in to their account before we arrive. no mention at all over the last 4 weeks, simply a demand of money today and paid before we arrive.


Well does this seam reasonable ?. we could have been told at the time of arranging the meeting. any suggestions how to get legal opinion for a reasonable fee. I only need to understand if it is breach of contract, breach of trust and ill move forward.

thanks

steveeasy

[Amethyst]

Re: How hard can it be

Goodness. No the cost should definately have been made clear up front. On the solicitor front, did you receive a breakdown of what the bill was for? Had they actually done anything over that 9 month period ?

Presumably the same issue as http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...170#post688170 ?

[Peridot]

Re: How hard can it be

I hope he's already considered the issue and it won't be a fee to get you there, have a meeting and then further sum to actually advise you. Do check. Not sure on direct access barristers but would have thought there would need to be client care and T&C's too? Will see if I can find any info and post back if helpful.

[Peridot]

Re: How hard can it be

Hi again,
The Bar Standards Board make the following comments on fees for public access barristers:-

"When you instruct a barrister, they should make it clear to you at the outset how you will be charged, what it will cost and who will pay. If it is not clear you should ask your barrister further questions to make sure you know what the charges will be.
*
How will I be charged?

A barrister should discuss the way you will be charged, and if it is not clear you should ask for more information. There are a number of ways a barrister can charge for their services:
Fixed fee- this is when a barrister considers how much work they will have to do for you and how much this will cost. The barrister then gives you an overall amount that you will need to pay for the work they are doing.
Hourly rate- this is when a barrister will have a set rate they charge for each hour of work they do for you. They will then keep track of how many hours of work they have done for you, and this will be the final cost.
Conditional fee arrangement- this is when how much you need to pay will depend on whether you win your case. For example, the agreement may be that if you do not win, you do not have to pay the barrister, or you may have to pay a smaller fixed amount and only need to pay the rest if you win.
The Legal Ombudsman (LEO) has written a guide on what you should ask your lawyer about costs. The guide can be found on LEO's website."

I thought it would be handy to flag this up. Here is the Bar Standards Board website which gives some pointers on what you can expect and also what the Barristers should be doing and where to go if they aren't. https://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk/using-a-barrister/

[steveeasy]

Re: How hard can it be

Goodness. No the cost should definately have been made clear up front. On the solicitor front, did you receive a breakdown of what the bill was for? Had they actually done anything over that 9 month period ?

Presumably the same issue as http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...170#post688170 ?

Hi
We went to a solicitor in October 2015, had a meeting, he was going to take a couple of weeks to respond. In March 2016 I had a letter stating our file had or was being put in deep storage.( I assumed hed lost interest) In June 2016 (nearly nine months later) I received a short letter stating we should seek a barristers opinion, Nearly £1,000 for the letter we received and £1500 to prepare info for a barrister.
what did he do, well a meeting and a response with no opinion other than go to a barrister.


The latest action by a chambers in London staggers me. I arranged the meeting four weeks ago, at last to get a legal opinion. I booked the train tickets Monday. I got an email early today saying well we could discuss it more on the phone. emailed back saying we would still like to meet him as agreed, then get an email requesting £950 in advance of even turning up. why not tell me in advance.


I need to move forwards and quickly. we spent four years obtaining an award for 125,000. it was granted. then we were told by our landlord he did not want it and had given it back. a year later we went to parliament about a investigation involving farmers (fully upheld in our favour) during this meeting the secretary of state informed us we still had an award it had never been given back. in due course our landlord was encouraged to return the award and stated he had not used it due to my actions (a complaint to the )PHSO)

we then lost our home and business, and all the farmers were let of some of which commited fraud. we have now moved on but wish to sue our landlord for is it misrepresentation, breach of a informal contract, breach of trust, But he is not a trustee. we were to get a new 15 year lease if we were successful in a grant application. all we got was kicked out for 8 years work.

steveeasy

[steveeasy]

Re: How hard can it be

I have spoken now with the barrister. he has been busy over the last four weeks that's why he did not ask in advance for £950 until today. who would really pay that much in advance to even meeting someone. it must surely be unreasonable . it leaves you utterly feeling as if everything is money,money, money. of course it is but in business we butter it up so to speak.

steveeasy

[Peridot]

Re: How hard can it be

It is really tough and an awful situation.

You can appreciate yourself this is not a straightforward matter so you will inevitably need face to face legal advice. It is unfortunate the initial solicitor advice you received (or didn't for a considerable time!) was not more helpful. Was the bill paid sometime ago now? If more recent or not paid, I would seriously consider querying the bill, ask for a breakdown of exactly what they believe they have done (or not as the case may be).

As far as the barrister is concerned, I am assuming that they have had all the relevant paperwork? Due to the complexity of the potential claim it will take a few hours to go through the information and also to formulate an advice for the next steps for you. They would have an hourly rate the same as solicitors so it can quite quickly mount up, with a few hours considering papers, another couple of hours preparing the advice and then an hours meeting for example. However for the amount requested I would expect a written advice following the meeting at the very least. According to the Bar Standards Board Handbook (guidance for the barristers but useful for considering fees from your point of view), there are rules and guidance concerning fees that barristers are meant to comply with (Fees from clause 49 onwards):- https://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk...uary_2016_.pdf

I'm not sure I understand whether you have approached the barrister yourself or whether the solicitor that you saw actually instructed them?
My other concern is related to the barristers comment about dealing with this over the phone. Have you been advised that you have a good claim? I would be concerned if you are throwing money at this if there is little chance of your being successful. Was any discussion of what fees would be had you just had a phone conversation with the barrister?

Apologies more questions than answers for you but hopefully the answers to any questions I have raised mean that the barrister will be meeting with you having considered all the relevant papers to do with your potential claim and is able to give you sound practical advice on the way forward for you both.

If we can help do give us a shout although to pursue your claim I would definitely recommend obtaining full advice face to face with a lawyer and assistance with the process throughout. Maybe explore other ways of funding the claim eg no win no fee. Have you checked any insurance that you hold to see whether you have legal expense insurance available under any policy? Just some other thoughts.

If the meeting is today, I hope it went/goes well and that you are also safe after today's problems around Westminster.

[steveeasy]

Re: How hard can it be

Hi Peridot,
thank you for your reply. An independent barrister. I approached him several weeks ago. we discussed it briefly. he said it was worth a meeting with him. I arranged a date for tomorrow 4 weeks ago. I booked train tickets on Monday. travelling 160 miles each way. £260. I expected to meet him as agreed and obtain his opinion. plan a way forward under direct access. I received email this morning suggesting we discuss the matter on the phone. I returned his email saying I preferred to meet him as agreed as I had commited to the travel. I then at 2ish received an email requesting £900 to be paid in advance of meeting him.

The other solicitor had already worked for us and yes been paid. we met with him specifically to get opinion. he said it would be after his weeks holiday before he responded. he responded 9 months later. simply suggesting I get a barristers opinion.


I see the matter as very straightforward. an agreement between two parties to obtain funding to benefit both parties. its all documented. I spend 3 years obtaining quotations, full planning approval, letting secondary busineses to support applications I do all the work. 100s of hoursif not more. awarded to landlord 124,000. then I am told he has given it back. the award was for my business, my employees my customers. supported by a retail on site shop let by me, clubs, and associations. he accepted the award them mislead everyone over its existence. I say it lightly but is it not fraudulent. lots of embarresment at defra.
at the same time ive uncovered fraud by farmers in Lincolnshire. the phso hold investigation. find defra guilty of maladministration. Stephen phillips qc accuses defra of cover up. Criminal investigation finds other applicants guilty of fraud. they were taking our business. turns out our landlord is a friend of the agent involved.

so he tells us hes given it back but agreed to keep it with defra. we find out a year later. then we loose out house and business. ALl I need is to identify what legal route I can use to pursue the landlord for my loses. ie time. and the promise of a 15 year lease if we were successful in obtaing an award which we did. the other party is very wealthy, so it is worth pursueing.

[steveeasy]

Re: How hard can it be

Also the new barrister had not seen any papers just a short conversation. I was meeting him to discuss in detail and pass on papers/evidence.

[Peridot]

Re: How hard can it be

Hi Steveeasy,
I appreciate how frustrating this is. I think it is unfortunate that your solicitor was maybe not as quick off the mark as they should have been. In respect of the fee requested, bearing in mind the time to consider papers and advice I would say it is worth continuing. I believe one of the links I sent to you does suggest how the money will be dealt with. The barrister can only charge for the time he takes not just hang onto the £900 whether or not he takes 3 hrs or 7 for example.
Unfortunately in order to proceed and potentially obtain some insurance to cover costs of the case in the event you issue and fail you will need the barristers opinion. You need to be certain that the likelihood of you succeeding in the claim is over 50% before proceeding. On the face of it it would appear so but as I say this is not my area and it would be foolhardy to just go ahead without the opinion in my mind.
Sorry probably not what you wanted to hear. I would say definitely worth getting the opinion, but try and pin him down on likely cost both for his advice and going forward to trial if needs be. He will not be able to tell you but his clerks should.
It will be interesting to see what the barrister says.

[steveeasy]

Re: How hard can it be

Hi Steveeasy,
I appreciate how frustrating this is. I think it is unfortunate that your solicitor was maybe not as quick off the mark as they should have been. In respect of the fee requested, bearing in mind the time to consider papers and advice I would say it is worth continuing. I believe one of the links I sent to you does suggest how the money will be dealt with. The barrister can only charge for the time he takes not just hang onto the £900 whether or not he takes 3 hrs or 7 for example.
Unfortunately in order to proceed and potentially obtain some insurance to cover costs of the case in the event you issue and fail you will need the barristers opinion. You need to be certain that the likelihood of you succeeding in the claim is over 50% before proceeding. On the face of it it would appear so but as I say this is not my area and it would be foolhardy to just go ahead without the opinion in my mind.
Sorry probably not what you wanted to hear. I would say definitely worth getting the opinion, but try and pin him down on likely cost both for his advice and going forward to trial if needs be. He will not be able to tell you but his clerks should.
It will be interesting to see what the barrister says.

Hi
Thank you for your reply, much appreciated. not as quick of the mark as he should have been, is very much an understatement. actually in 2003 I was awarded 5,000 compensation from the law society when a solicitor who was representing me tried to cover up his errors and acted in the interests of another party. The solicitor who was to respond a week or so later then waited 9 months was extremely poor service that needed addressing. of course we can justify £900, but ive not even met the person, not turned up yet. I arranged this yes 4 weeks ago. every opportunity to say I want x amount up front before I let you in. Its cost me £260 wasted in fairs. I know what I think, but ill move on and try to find someone who can meet with me and give me an opinion and ill pay them.

thank you for your help.

steveeasy

[steveeasy]

Re: How hard can it be

Hi,
Ive spoken to the barrister and he was very nice. I hope to meet with him in the next few days. In the meantime ive got to make some progress as our time is fast running out.

The landlord and ourselves had a formal meeting where we agreed to jointly apply for funding to improve my business. I did almost everythging( I know people normally say that) but I did. including preparing a planning application that cost 20,000 just the councils fee. I got a grant to pay 50% of the fee. I did all the drawings, applications, it took three years. within the application the tenant me was to get 15 year new lease if the grant APPLICATION WAS SUCCESFUL I would think I can prove some form of formal agreement/contract.

iN LATE MARCH 2011 I was told he had given it back. I emailed Stephen phillips our mp and a QC and informed him our landlord had given the award back. So I have written evidence I had been told or believed he had given it back.


In December 2012 I was in a meeting with secretary of state jim paice and he informed me actually we still had an award it had not been returned. so I have evidence I was informed contrary to my own understanding.


I also have evidence my landlord did not want to use it because of me making a complaint to the parliamentary ombudsman over another fraudulent award. evidenced by letter by defra to PHSO they were all trying to put me down. The investigation took three years and fully upheld my complaint.


so I want to sue for loss of 15 year lease. time in prearing application . I think I should sue for breach of contract. and the action of misrepresentation in purposely misleading me over the status of an award that's only purpose was my business.


so can anyone direct me to any reading or material so I can if need be plan some sort of structure to start a claim. it would be much appreciated.

thank you

steveeasy