Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

[Reign233]

Hello all,

Just a brief bit of background. A friend has filed a claim on MCOL against his ex-employer for wages owed. Defence was received from the ex-employer basically acknowledging that they owe him wages but claim that he owes them more than they owe him due to damaged property and that's why he has not been paid. The ex-employer did not make a counterclaim. Directions Questionnaires were filed and both agreed to mediation but this didn't happen (I think the ex-employer wasn't available for the telephone appointment).

Today he has received a N24 General Form of Judgement or Order and it is ordered that:

1. The defendants to confirm by 4pm on 18th July whether they intend in the light of the defence filed to pursue a counterclaim. It appears that is what the defence is. If so, they must submit an amended defence to counterclaim and pay the appropriate fee by 4pm on 25th July.

2. In default any counterclaim will be struck out.

3. This order is made of the Court's own initiative, without hearing the parties or giving them an opportunity to make representations. Any party affected by the order may apply to the Court to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. Any such application must be made not more than 7 days after the date on which the order was served on the party making the application.

I was just wondering if somebody can explain what this means? It appears to me that it's ordering the ex-employer to do something, eg resubmit a new defence or make a counterclaim, but I could be wrong. Does the claimant need to do anything or is this just a notice for the defendant and will the case proceed as normal?

Apologies in advance if it's not clear but I can explain further in needed

Thank you :tongue2:

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

It means basically that the defendants have made a counterclaim. They admit owing the money to your friend but say they don't have to pay it because of this damage allegation.

The court, rightly, see this as an admission and counterclaim.

If the counterclaim isn't made then I believe the defence would be struck out and your friend would be awarded the sum claimed.

It is likely the employer would now submit a counterclaim though - and if/when he does your friend will be able to defend the counterclaim. He needn't do anything right now though.

A copy of the defence would help narrow that down further.

[Reign233]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

Thank you, Amethyst for the super speedy reply. Very helpful

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

Maybe too speedy, I just re-read my first sentence, which doesn't make much sense...

It means basically that the defendants have made a counterclaim.

It means basically that the defendants have made a defence that should be a counterclaim.

But hopefully you got what I meant xx

[Reign233]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

Yep I understood it perfectly So it's basically just saying "Look, if you say the claimant owes you money and that's your defence then you have to counterclaim through the proper process".

Thank you again :stars:

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

Perfect ( and sounds like they have admitted they owe the wages in their defence already )

Does your friend have a defence to the 'damage' claim if they do formally make it ?

[Reign233]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

He's able to defend it but as he didn't expect them to counterclaim as they ticked NO to that question on the questionnaire it's all just been chat and talk. So I suppose now he needs to start preparing his defence because by the sounds of it they have no choice but to counterclaim. I'm going to sit down with him and try to gather all his info etc.

Another question I've just thought of actually. If they do counterclaim will he have to file a defence by post in the same way they did (so I suppose the same process that the defendant followed, just the other way around) or will it go to court once they have counterclaimed and his defence to the counterclaim will be heard in court?

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

He will have 14 days after they submit their counterclaim to defend it.

Yes it will go onto paper now ( or email is okay for submitting to court, but a copy on paper will need to go to defendant ) - anything off the standard tick box route can't be done through Moneyclaim online.

Basically

They submit counterclaim
You defend counterclaim
Hearing is ordered
Both are heard in that hearing ( if both exist) otherwise judgment is awarded to you on the claim (due to admission) but it is held for the counterclaim to be heard.

[Reign233]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

Understood Thank you.

Oh...one last question, I promise. If/when a hearing is ordered who is responsible for the fee if they have counterclaimed? Will it still be the the claimant who pays the hearing fee or will both parties pay as both making a claim against eachother?

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

If the hearing proceeds solely on the counterclaim it will be the defendant ( the counter-claimant). Otherwise I must admit I'm not entirely sure.

[CLL1]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

There's only going to be one hearing, so only one hearing fee to pay.

[Amethyst]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

Yes but not sure who pays it, if the claim goes to hearing with only the Counterclaim, is it the Defendant pays the hearing fee ? vs. if the Claim and Counterclaim both proceed to hearing - who pays?

[Reign233]

Re: Small Claim Help please - N24 General Form of Judgement or Order

I suppose he can cross the fee bridge when he comes to it.

May I ask, when you say proceed to hearing only with the counterclaim, what does this mean? Is it that the original claim by the claimant will have been denied (not sure of the right word) based on the paper evidence submitted but he will still need to defend the counterclaim they've made against him in court?