Court Claim - Joint Tenants

[bluezulu]

I hope someone may be able to answer this question please.

We are 6 litigants in person (joint tenants) preparing a Part 8 claim against a previous landlord for failing to protect our deposit in accordance with the statutory requirements.

If all the claimants names are detailed under 'Claimant' on the claim form and a court hearing becomes necessary, would one claimant be able to represent all the claimants in court, or must they all attend?

The other 5 claimants are now living all over the place, including one abroad, so getting them all to a hearing would be pretty difficult, and at least one is so terrified of appearing in court that they would rather drop the case!

We hope a hearing will not be needed, as we believe we have enough written evidence (eg deposit receipt and deposit scheme confirmation) and hope we can manage without witness statements from each claimant, which would likely be discounted if they didn't appear in person.

Thank you for any thoughts.

[PAWS]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

Just giving this a bump for you

[Kati]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]?? any idea??

- - - Updated - - -
[MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] might be able to help with the particulars of claim too (if you give him more insight into what your ex-LL did ) xx

[R0b]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

Witness statements would not be discounted if they other claimants could not attend but more likely hearsay.

Contact the court and ask them if the judge is willing to accept one claimant to represent on behalf of all of the claimants party to the claim against the landlord - I couldn't see any reason to do so but you will need witness statements from all who don't attend and the judge will have deem the statements to be hearsay, attaching any necessary weight.

A part 8 claim is used where there is not a substantial dispute of fact, has the LL agreed that a Part 8 claim would be more suitable? The judge will review the evidence and contract which you have with the LL and decide on who is right, unless he believes that a hearing would be more beneficial.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

I hope someone may be able to answer this question please.

We are 6 litigants in person (joint tenants) preparing a Part 8 claim against a previous landlord for failing to protect our deposit in accordance with the statutory requirements.

If all the claimants names are detailed under 'Claimant' on the claim form and a court hearing becomes necessary, would one claimant be able to represent all the claimants in court, or must they all attend?

The other 5 claimants are now living all over the place, including one abroad, so getting them all to a hearing would be pretty difficult, and at least one is so terrified of appearing in court that they would rather drop the case!

We hope a hearing will not be needed, as we believe we have enough written evidence (eg deposit receipt and deposit scheme confirmation) and hope we can manage without witness statements from each claimant, which would likely be discounted if they didn't appear in person.

Thank you for any thoughts.

I would think as long as one claimant is there, present in court to represent the facts, you could ask for permission to use the other joint tenants' witness statements to rely on your collective claims. However bear in mind, it's better in person as each can give an account. I have studied enough case law to know that judges like to ask questions to the witnesses, as much as anything else, to help understand how the issues personally affect them in view of a remedy. So my advice, would be to have at least 2 for the hearing including yourself. Remember a written statement is very limited as you can't ask this witness questions. Even in terms of experts in complex cases, where experts rely on written testimony, they say to the judge (in their witness statement), you can write any questions to me and I will be happy to answer. This defeats the object however.

[Crazy council]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

Hi

what the details with the deposits..

How much did each pay
were they protected by the LL at any time in a scheme ( even if late )
has the LL paid any back ( if so how much )

[bluezulu]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

Witness statements would not be discounted if they other claimants could not attend but more likely hearsay.

Contact the court and ask them if the judge is willing to accept one claimant to represent on behalf of all of the claimants party to the claim against the landlord - I couldn't see any reason to do so but you will need witness statements from all who don't attend and the judge will have deem the statements to be hearsay, attaching any necessary weight.

A part 8 claim is used where there is not a substantial dispute of fact, has the LL agreed that a Part 8 claim would be more suitable? The judge will review the evidence and contract which you have with the LL and decide on who is right, unless he believes that a hearing would be more beneficial.

Thank you for your reply.

Because we have enough evidence, I was hoping that we could manage without any witness statements. These would basically be 6 identical statements saying "I paid LL £x as a deposit" so as we have a receipt from the LL as evidence for the payment of the deposit I thought they would be duplication anyway.

A tenancy deposit claim under s214 Housing Act has to be a Part 8 claim.

[bluezulu]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

Hi

what the details with the deposits..

How much did each pay
were they protected by the LL at any time in a scheme ( even if late )
has the LL paid any back ( if so how much )

Hi,

£300 x 6 tenants.

Protected slightly late.

Paid back approx half (claimed for annual cleaning costs, roof and guttering repairs, etc) but won't provide check-in/check-out reports we have requested.

We didn't know about the free ADR because no PI was provided, and missed my|deposits 3 month time limit to dispute.

Thanks for any advice.

[Crazy council]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

hi, was it student accommodation and did the tenancy agreement have any provision in it for annual cleaning.

Would need the full worded details relating to what he claimed back. Possibly a copy of a tenancy contract as well. ( with personal details redacted. )

Did he contact you prior doing any work ( or attempt to ), and why does he think gutters are your responsibility ( usualy only after a year, or 2 )

[R0b]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

Because we have enough evidence, I was hoping that we could manage without any witness statements. These would basically be 6 identical statements saying "I paid LL £x as a deposit" so as we have a receipt from the LL as evidence for the payment of the deposit I thought they would be duplication anyway. .

On this point above, CPR 19.6 provides that you can have a "same interest" representative for the claim. You do not need to have the court's permission but there is a stringent test, a judgement or order will be binding on all parties represented on the claim. The test that is applied is the following:

1. a common interest;
2. common grievance;
3. and a remedy that is beneficial to everyone.

In your case it would seem that you would pass the test however, I have never brought a claim before where there has been one representative on behalf of multiple claimants. I would imagine you would suggest on your claim form, pursuant to CPR 19.6 it is agreed by all parties that [name] be the representative of the claim on behalf of all other claimants.

The judge may agree or give an order to this effect and you would then presumably submit 1 witness statement and evidence in support on behalf of all parties.

[bluezulu]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

hi, was it student accommodation and did the tenancy agreement have any provision in it for annual cleaning.

Would need the full worded details relating to what he claimed back. Possibly a copy of a tenancy contract as well. ( with personal details redacted. )

Did he contact you prior doing any work ( or attempt to ), and why does he think gutters are your responsibility ( usualy only after a year, or 2 )

Hi,

It was a private house rental, but we were students - all first time tenants.

The tenancy agreement has no provision in it for 'Annual Student Clean'. When challenged over this, LL stated this was just a company description! We spent 3 days cleaning the house before moving out and have photos of the condition.

We were just presented with the bills after check-out. Thank you, you've just made me think about this as the cleaning which took 25 hours (5 cleaners for 5 hours each) took place the day after we moved out, so it must have been booked. Separate professional oven clean also took place the day after we moved out. Some slates and guttering was damaged, so LL charged us, even though no-one has any knowledge of this damage. It could even have been done before we moved in.

The problem is that the LL won't provide us with the check-in/check-out reports to allow us to see whether any of the deductions are fair, although they were not independent which is probably why they aren't being provided.

The tenancy agreement is very unprofessional and has only one of us listed under Tenant, so may not apply to the rest of us? The other 5 of us had to just write our names on a separate piece of paper, which is attached to the TA. We all signed the TA but under the Witness Section section after the LL and Tenant. We are all named on the Deposit Protection Certificate, although a relevant person was not added or provided with the prescribed information either.

I could provide a copy of the redacted TA but don't want to put you to any more trouble.

Just grateful for any thoughts.

Thank you.

[bluezulu]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

On this point above, CPR 19.6 provides that you can have a "same interest" representative for the claim. You do not need to have the court's permission but there is a stringent test, a judgement or order will be binding on all parties represented on the claim. The test that is applied is the following:

1. a common interest;
2. common grievance;
3. and a remedy that is beneficial to everyone.

In your case it would seem that you would pass the test however, I have never brought a claim before where there has been one representative on behalf of multiple claimants. I would imagine you would suggest on your claim form, pursuant to CPR 19.6 it is agreed by all parties that [name] be the representative of the claim on behalf of all other claimants.

The judge may agree or give an order to this effect and you would then presumably submit 1 witness statement and evidence in support on behalf of all parties.

Thank you.

Does this not just mean that one of us could be the claimant and represent all the others, rather than all of us being the claimant and then only one of us turning up for the hearing?

[R0b]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

No because each person is a claimant so you would have 6 claimants and 1 representative which would be you representing all 6 on behalf of them. The representative would put the arguments forward on behalf of the 6 claimants and the judge will rule based on the representatives evidence put forward. Otherwise it would be 6 claims a nd that would be a bit silly if you all have the same claim

[bluezulu]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

No because each person is a claimant so you would have 6 claimants and 1 representative which would be you representing all 6 on behalf of them. The representative would put the arguments forward on behalf of the 6 claimants and the judge will rule based on the representatives evidence put forward. Otherwise it would be 6 claims a nd that would be a bit silly if you all have the same claim

Thank you. That makes sense to me and just what I was hoping for!

[Crazy council]

Re: Court Claim - Joint Tenants

hi

We are all named on the Deposit Protection Certificate, although a relevant person was not added or provided with the prescribed information either.

was that one certificate, ore one each.

i would think your ex-ll may struggle to defend a claim from you.e you notify them your intent to take court , demand the docs you need and ask them to justify the charges.