Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

[BDanny]

Hello

On the moneyclaim uk website I made a small claim against a lady that pulled in front of me, causing me to crash my bicycle into her car. When I tried to claim for damages to my bike (2 wheels, front fork + labour), a total of £305, her insurer told me she disputed the event (even though police was present at the scene who gave me her details and told her she was at fault) and I should contact my solicitor.

So after a small claim on the website and a letter letting her know that I would gladly settle out of court if she pays me the money or accepts liability so that I can go through her insurer, I received a response.

I am dealing with her legal adviser, probably offered by her insurer. They have accepted that she was at fault at this point but they are asking me to provide proof of ownership of the bicycle and proof of damages claimed for, more specifically:

"It is admitted, for the purpose for these proceedings alone, that at the material location there was contact between the Claimant's vehicle and vehicle XXXX (the Defendant's vehicle). For the avoidance of doubt the Claimant is put to strict proof as to ownership of the particularised vehicle."

"For the avoidance of doubt, it is the Defendant's case that quantum remains to be in dispute between parties and the Claimant is put to strict proof as to any alleged loss and damage claimed for."

and

"The Claimant is put to strict proof as to each and every loss allegedly arising from this incident."

It sounds like the last two paragraphs ask for the same thing, proof of damage costs? Do I understand that correctly? I have already sent them a copy of the Accident Report (from the bike shop) and the receipt that details all the individual costs for the repairs, I guess I'll just send them again, what else can I offer as proof of damage?

However, I don't know what proof to send that the bicycle is mine. I bought it through an app called "Shpock" that defines itself as a "boot sale app" and shows you listings in your local area. The only proof would be screenshots of my phone that show the deal. The seller gave me no receipt (same as when going to a boot sale). I could maybe write to the seller through the app, ask him to write me a letter and hope he responds? Is that really necessary? Is it enough? No one took a picture of my bicycle when the incident happened anyway, so they don't know what bicycle was involved in the impact.


Another worry I've got is that I purchased the bike for £150 (and the price is displayed in the Shpock app screenshots), and repairs costed £300. I chose to do them because a bike like that is over £1000 new. And a second hand one is about £250. Will they grab on that to deny me the money?


I hope someone can help me out here.

Also, on the website it now states: "A bar was put in place for [Defendant]" and "DQ sent to [Defendant]" could someone tell me what that means? And when I send them letters, do I need to let the court know of anything?


Thank you very much.

[R0b]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

Hello BDanny,

A bar put in place means that when the court receives a defence on the 14/28th day, it prevents you from claiming default judgment. Assuming DQ means directions questionnaire has been sent to the defendant, which is to be completed to assist the court in allocating the claim.

Having screenshots of the purchase from an app is definitely relevant and you should keep hold of them to put in as evidence - You could of course always ask the seller to write a short letter (including his name, address, contact) to confirm that the bike was purchased by yourself. The most obvious question I am not seeing here is how was the bike paid? I've never used Shpock before but if it wasn't cash then can you not get a statement from your bank or paypal to prove the money has come out of your account?

For the avoidance of doubt the Claimant is put to strict proof as to ownership of the particularised vehicle.

What the insurer is essentially saying by strict proof is that, providing you can prove you own the bike then they will accept liability and pay out.

For the avoidance of doubt, it is the Defendant's case that quantum remains to be in dispute between parties and the Claimant is put to strict proof as to any alleged loss and damage claimed for.

Quantum means costs/damages - It seems they are disputing the amount you are claiming for and it will be up to you to prove that you have amounted those losses. Not quite clear whether you chose to do the repairs yourself, but assuming you did, do you have receipts for the parts or any bank statements or other evidence to prove that the cost adds to what you are claiming?

EDIT: just read you forwarded the accident report - if you have already sent them this then it is not required to send again however just for the avoidance of doubt if you didn't send by recorded delivery or some way or don't have proof of postage, you can of course send the report by email to the insurers acting solicitor as an extra measure. Providing that details and outlines any costs incurred I will presume you'll get those costs back. is there anything else your claiming for?

[des8]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

Quite frankly I believe they are trying to exert pressure on you.

This is probably being orchestrated by a claims company being used by the woman's insurers, but even if it isn't and is being dealt with by a solicitor for the lady herself it doesn't make economic sense.
Your claim is £305.00, and if you take it through to the court stage it will cost them even if they win.
They start now by scaring you with legalese in the hopes you drop the claim, or will accept a smaller settlement at mediation stage..This saves them money on the actual claim and solicitors costs.
Sooner or later they will pick up on the purchase price and offer that as settlement, but all you will need to show is that replacement cost is higher. It is the value of the bike, not necessarily the cost to you, that is important. The fact you had a bargain, or a gift is not the point>

[ostell]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

Do you use the bike to get to work etc? So how are you getting to work? The reason I ask is that I had this sort of behaviour from an insurance company and as soon as I threatened to start claiming for car hire the cheque came through very fast indeed.

[BDanny]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

Hello BDanny,

A bar put in place means that when the court receives a defence on the 14/28th day, it prevents you from claiming default judgment. Assuming DQ means directions questionnaire has been sent to the defendant, which is to be completed to assist the court in allocating the claim.

Having screenshots of the purchase from an app is definitely relevant and you should keep hold of them to put in as evidence - You could of course always ask the seller to write a short letter (including his name, address, contact) to confirm that the bike was purchased by yourself. The most obvious question I am not seeing here is how was the bike paid? I've never used Shpock before but if it wasn't cash then can you not get a statement from your bank or paypal to prove the money has come out of your account?



What the insurer is essentially saying by strict proof is that, providing you can prove you own the bike then they will accept liability and pay out.



Quantum means costs/damages - It seems they are disputing the amount you are claiming for and it will be up to you to prove that you have amounted those losses. Not quite clear whether you chose to do the repairs yourself, but assuming you did, do you have receipts for the parts or any bank statements or other evidence to prove that the cost adds to what you are claiming?

EDIT: just read you forwarded the accident report - if you have already sent them this then it is not required to send again however just for the avoidance of doubt if you didn't send by recorded delivery or some way or don't have proof of postage, you can of course send the report by email to the insurers acting solicitor as an extra measure. Providing that details and outlines any costs incurred I will presume you'll get those costs back. is there anything else your claiming for?

Thanks for replying. I had already sent them the proof (both receipt and report) but I sent them again just in case. I've also sent them the screenshots with date of purchase and bank statement showing the amount being drawn out from a cash point on the same date. I've told them in the letter that as this is like buying the bike at a boot sale there is no other proof I can provide. I'm not claiming for anything else. I did have bumps and bruises which I took photos of but I had no problem going to work next morning so I didn't want to go down the personal injury route.

Quite frankly I believe they are trying to exert pressure on you.

This is probably being orchestrated by a claims company being used by the woman's insurers, but even if it isn't and is being dealt with by a solicitor for the lady herself it doesn't make economic sense.
Your claim is £305.00, and if you take it through to the court stage it will cost them even if they win.
They start now by scaring you with legalese in the hopes you drop the claim, or will accept a smaller settlement at mediation stage..This saves them money on the actual claim and solicitors costs.
Sooner or later they will pick up on the purchase price and offer that as settlement, but all you will need to show is that replacement cost is higher. It is the value of the bike, not necessarily the cost to you, that is important. The fact you had a bargain, or a gift is not the point>

Hi, if I go on ebay a bike like mine is around £500-£600, they are newer, though, 2012-2013 instead of 2009. I hope they won't comment on the price I paid, though.

Do you use the bike to get to work etc? So how are you getting to work? The reason I ask is that I had this sort of behaviour from an insurance company and as soon as I threatened to start claiming for car hire the cheque came through very fast indeed.

Indeed I do. But I used my other bike (a mountain bike), and my car. But I don't want to add more stuff now that we're actually trying to sort this out. Frankly I want to end this ASAP.

Thanks for all the replays. I'm really liking this forum. And sorry for the late response.

[BDanny]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

GOOD NEWS
Hello, I would like to put an update here and also ask a couple of questions.

Today I have emailed the proof they wanted again after not hearing from her lawyer in two weeks (I first sent the proof they wanted 2 weeks ago and didn't hear back from them) and not 1 hour later I got an email saying they accept the evidence and that a cheque will be sent for the full amount in the next 14-21 days. She is also asking me to tell the Court that we settled.



My question is: should I wait until I see and successfully cash the cheque before informing the court of our settlement? That could be a while... if I tell them now that we settled, and later the cheque never arrives or I can't cash it, what would be my options? How is this step usually done?


And a separate question, on the moneyclaim.gov.uk website the last "Transaction" on this claim is "General sanctions order was made on 28/10/2015" can someone tell me what that means, as I have not been able to find this phrase on google.


Thank you. You have all been great in helping me in this mater.

[Kati]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] might know xx

[Amethyst]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

Yes, definitely wait until the cheque is cleared before informing the court of settlement. If they wish you to inform the court of settlement then they should arrange to pay you by bank transfer etc if time is an issue ( eg hitting the credit file and only being capable of being marked as satisfied rather than removed). It can't be all that urgent if they aren't sending it for 14-21 days - but that is their problem.

Sanctions order... interesting - that was on the 28th so you should get a copy in the post - you could call the court and ask them - I'll read back through the thread though see if I can figure it out ( but would be a guess - so best to call the court)

[Amethyst]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

hmm did you receive a Directions Questionnaire too ? As claimant you should have received one. A sanction could be because you haven't returned the DQ.

[R0b]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

If it was only sent on 28 october then you might not receive it until next week but a sanctions order will probably be a sanction from the court. A sanction is normally where a court has considered that a breach or default of some sort will give rise to a sanction - who the sanction is against will state on the order but as Amethyst pointed out contact the court they should tell you and maybe send a copy by email.

Saying that the court could order a stay on proceedings which could also be deemed as a sanction and therefore to proceed further you will need to apply to the court.

[BDanny]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

hmm did you receive a Directions Questionnaire too ? As claimant you should have received one. A sanction could be because you haven't returned the DQ.

I did receive one and sent it a full 10 days before the time (22nd).

What could happen if they didn't receive it for whatever reason, especially now that we've settled? I'm willing to bet they didn't send the DQ in time since they seem really slow at doing things.

BTW, her lawyer just emailed to thank me and tell me they let the court know they settled. I tried calling the court for info but they're not answering, probably lunch time.

[R0b]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

Is the full amount including costs for making the claim or just the damage? Be wary of the court withdrawing your claim on the basis of the other side telling them - they shouldn't do so but might be worth putting an email to them for records purposes saying that it has been initially agreed settlement subject to receiving payment for the full amount outstanding - ask whether it is possible to delay any hearing for a further 28 days lets say.

Agree with Amethyst, I would get back onto the other side and push for payment by BACS as opposed to receiving a cheque, you'll have to wait 14-21 days for the cheque and then a further 5 clear days for the money to actually reach your account which actually means it it all goes well thats another month! either that or request that a cheque be sent within 7 days which is a more reasonable time.

[BDanny]

Re: Defendant asking for proof of ownership of bicycle in crash

Is the full amount including costs for making the claim or just the damage? Be wary of the court withdrawing your claim on the basis of the other side telling them - they shouldn't do so but might be worth putting an email to them for records purposes saying that it has been initially agreed settlement subject to receiving payment for the full amount outstanding - ask whether it is possible to delay any hearing for a further 28 days lets say.

Agree with Amethyst, I would get back onto the other side and push for payment by BACS as opposed to receiving a cheque, you'll have to wait 14-21 days for the cheque and then a further 5 clear days for the money to actually reach your account which actually means it it all goes well thats another month! either that or request that a cheque be sent within 7 days which is a more reasonable time.

The only thing is that in my excitement I emailed them that I accept the way they first said, via cheque. I don't mind the wait but I will get in contact with the court as you said. The amount they said they will pay was for the full repairs plus the court fee, so that's ok.