Getting information from the police about an incident

[rpjjuk]

Hi everyone, perhaps someone can advise me about an incident that happened to me recently.

I was taking my dog for a walk at about 9 pm one evening when a large dog ran out through an open gate on my neighbours property next door to me. The dog ran up to my dog and tried to attack him. I managed to pick my dog up (a very small Jack Russell) before the other dog could hurt him too much. The dog belongs to a friend of my neighbour who was visiting. I suggested to the owner of the dog that perhaps he should keep the dog on a lead, he pointed to the gate and just said "open gate". I then suggested that he might want to shut the gate. He replied "You better keep your mouth shut or I will set the dog on you". I replied that I was going into my house to call the police.
I called the 101 service and reported what had happened and was told they had no one that could attend but that they would send someone round as soon as they could.

After the incident the owner of the dog put the animal in his car and drove away. He returned ten minutes later without the dog. I noted the registration number of his car.
The following day they sent a PCSO round to take details of the incident. The PCSO also visited my neighbours and then left.

After a week I phoned 101 again and asked for an update. I was told that the PCSO had tried to contact the the owner of the other dog but he was not available. I have phoned and asked for several updates over the past few weeks and was told that it was a civil case. The last time I phoned I asked if the incident had now been closed but was given the runaround.
I have just asked for details from the log of the incident under the FOI Act and have just received a letter which is pure gobbledygook " We can neither confirm or deny if we hold this information but if we do hold this information then we would not........"

If this indeed a civil matter then how am I supposed to find out the name and address of the alleged offender?

Now the very sad part of this incident. We have owned our dog for 11 years and he is part of the family. He has been a constant source of entertainment as he was very intelligent and used to make us laugh every day.

After the incident I took my dog to the vet for a checkup and he was prescribed antibiotics and anti inflammatory tablets. The vet had examined him but as he had a thick coat was unable to find any actual bites but seemed to have some tender spots on his back so was probably bruised.

After the incident my dogs whole personality changed. He became withdrawn and didn't even want to go out for a walk. I ended up putting him in my car each day and taking him out to a quiet forest in the country.
He behaviour changed as well. He became aggressive to other people and even tried to bite my wife and I.
Things came to a head last weekend when he nipped my granddaughters arm. He didn't break the skin and no bruises have appeared.

This week I again took him the vet and had a very lengthy discussion with the vet. The vet said that if my dog had been younger he might have suggested castration, or training or calming tablets which would have made him like a zombie. He said that as he could no longer be trusted with people, especially children, then he was now a liability. He also said that re-homing was also out of the question.
I very reluctantly agreed to have my dog put to sleep. I was present when this was done. The effect on me was dramatic. I cried my eyes out and it took 30 minutes and a lot of consoling from the vet before I could even speak.

Seeing a physically healthy dog put down was one of the worst things that has happened to me in my life (I am a 67 year old male). When I told my children they were absolutely devastated as well.

I have considered making an official complaint about the way the incident was investigated as it appears that the police have not even spoken to the owner of the other dog. I phoned 101 and asked how I could make a complaint and was again given the runaround again . In the end I was told someone would ring me. I have had no further contact from the police.

Can someone please help me with this. I am very worried that the other dog could do this again and that next time a child could be involved.

Sorry for the length of this post but writing all this down has helped me deal with this.

[enquirer]

Re: Getting information from the police about an incident

Whilst there might be a civil aspect (you might have grounds to sue), dangerous dogs and assault (I assume that his threat 'put you in fear of unlawful force being applied to your person'), certainly are police matters. 'It's a civil matter' is trotted out regularly, either because they are bone idle, or because they are fiddling the crime figures.

Write an account of the whole affair, and send it by Recorded Delivery direct to the Chief Constable. Head it 'Complaint against Police'.

[ironman]

Re: Getting information from the police about an incident

This is not a Civil matter. A recent change in the law as to the Dangerous Dogs Act has just been passed. 13th May 2014

A dog now has to be kept under reasonable control, even on the premises of the householder property boundary

1. Overview
It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, eg:
in a public place
in a private place (eg a neighbour’s house or garden)
in the owner’s home
The law applies to all dogs.

Out of control
Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if:
it injures someone’s animal
the owner of the animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal
A farmer is allowed to kill your dog if it’s worrying their livestock.

Penalties
You can be fined up to £5,000 and/or sent to prison for up to 6 months if your dog is dangerously out of control. You may not be allowed to own a dog in the future and your dog may be destroyed.

If you let your dog injure someone you can be sent to prison for up to 5 years and/or fined. If you deliberately use your dog to injure someone you could be charged with ‘malicious wounding’.

If you allow your dog to kill someone you can be sent to prison for up to 14 years and/or get an unlimited fine.

If you allow your dog to injure a guide dog you can be sent to prison for up to 3 years and/or fined.
.

[rpjjuk]

Re: Getting information from the police about an incident

Thank you ironman and enquirer for your advice. I have done what you have suggested enquirer and sent a detailed letter of complaint to the Chief Constables office.
Surprise, surprise I got a phone call from a sergeant the very next day suggesting I meet her at the local police station.

I attended a meeting with the police sergeant and she apologised for the lack of action and asked me what I wanted the police to do. I suggested that at the very least the dog owner be contacted and given a caution about keeping his dog under control and a caution about threatening to set his dog on people. The sergeant agreed and wrote everything down on a form. I was asked to sign it. I then asked that when the incident had been investigated that I be updated on what had been done. The sergeant agreed to this.
It has been 6 weeks since this meeting and I have heard nothing. No phone calls to my house or mobile, no letters and no visits. I have phoned the local station several time via the 101 service and have been told that someone will ring me back.
What can I do now? Forget the whole thing and accept that the police no longer take an interest in things that matter to the ordinary person in the street. Write another letter to the Chief Constables office or just hire a couple of thugs to beat the other dog owner up.
No wonder people sometimes take the law into their own hands.

[Kati]

Re: Getting information from the police about an incident

Personally, I'd be writing another complaint to the Chief Constable, maybe sent via your local MPs office (so they know what has happened too). While a matter such as yours might seem like a little thing to some people, I know the trauma dog attacks can leave behind .

An apology from the police is in order (for their lack of response and effort). Also, they should let you know the outcome of your first complaint.

I think, if you let this drop now, without seeing it through to the end, you would forever be wondering "what if"

Kati x

[des8]

Re: Getting information from the police about an incident

When writing to the chief constable yet again mention the IPCC.
https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/complaints

We hear too often that the police dismiss reports as civil matters, then when pushed fail to follow up.

[rpjjuk]

Re: Getting information from the police about an incident

Another update after complaining to the Chief Constables Office for a second time.
22nd September 2014
It has been eight weeks since the meeting with the police sergeant (I will call her sergeant A) and I have not been updated. I have had no letters, no phone calls or messages on my answer-phone, no phone calls or messages on my mobile phone and no note through my door asking me to contact anyone. I have phoned 101 and asked that someone contact me and have heard nothing.
Today I again tried to contact sergeant A and managed to get through to her office. The person that answered said that the sergeant was on leave until October the 7th. The person looked at the incident and said that there was no update to the incident recording the complaint. I asked how many times the PCSO had tried to contact the dog owner and was told that the incident would not have been updated every time someone had tried to contact the dog owner.
I find this very odd as sergeant A told me that the PCSO had tried to contact the dog owner several times. Where was this information recorded?

Today I sent a second letter of complaint to the Chief Constables Office.

The following day I had a phone call from another sergeant (I will call him sergeant B) who told me that sergeant A was on holiday and he had been asked to deal with the complaint. The sergeant was very offhand and said he had only been told to deal with this complaint ten minutes ago. I told him that I had phoned 101 several times for an update and on one occasion the person on 101 had said he would put me through to the PCSOs station. I was put through and a young woman answered and said that the PCSO had transferred to another station. I asked her if I could get an update to the incident and was told that the system was down but that when the system was back up she would send an email to the PCSO asking her to contact me with an update.
Sergeant B replied that the PCSO had never transferred from any other station and had always worked at the same police station. Sergeant B said he would not investigate the original incident again but would only deal with the complaint about me not being contacted.

I was completely taken aback by this as I had written everything down after I had spoken to the person who said the system was down. I then said that I would wait for sergeant A to return from holiday.

10th October 2014
Phone call from the PCSO saying she was updating me reference the incident I reported. She said that she had spoken to the person who threatened to set his dog on me and she had warned him about his behaviour. I asked her if she had spoken to him face to face and she said she had only spoken to him on the phone. I asked when she had spoken to him and she said she can't remember but thought it was about a month after the incident. I was shocked when I heard this as I had not been given an update that she had spoken to him. I then realised that she was lying. If she had spoken to him a month after the incident and recorded it, then why was I repeatedly told that she had tried to contact him several times. Even after I had complained the sergeant who dealt with the complaint didn't know that the dog owner had been spoken to by the PCSO. If I had been updated then I would not have complained.
I ended the phone call as I thought it would be pointless to continue.

I then received a phone call from sergeant A who dealt with the original complaint. She apologised for all the problems with being updated etc. I mentioned to her that I didn't believe that the PCSO had spoken to the dog owner a month after the incident as I had repeatedly been told that the PCSO had been unable to contact him. I also mentioned that the PCSO's Sergeant had been quite adamant that the PCSO had never moved stations. When the PCSO phoned me I asked her about this and she said she had moved from another station about a year ago.
The sergeant said all the usual things - "sorry about this Mr Jones", "if you want to meet me I am quite happy to see you and discuss this", etc etc.

At no time did she indicate that she would be speaking to the PCSO about why she didn't tell anyone that she had spoken to the dog owner a month after the incident. I could tell that whatever I said or did, I would get nowhere. I told her that I would be in touch with her.

I think I can safely say this has been a police whitewash. As the incident doesn't seem to indicate that a complaint has been made, or the PCSO had spoken to the dog owner.

As I have only been living in this town a year after moving up from the south coast, perhaps I should have listened to my neighbours who all said that I would be wasting my time complaining about the police in this town, as nothing ever gets done.

I could carry on with this by complaining to the IPCC but their website says that complaints will take several months to be dealt with as there is a backlog.

Their website also says:

What happens after I make a complaint?
Your complaint will be recorded by the people the complaint is about. Nothing can happen about your complaint if it is not recorded.
The IPCC cannot record your complaint.
When your complaint has been recorded the people in charge will look into what happened. They will decide whether what happened was unfair.

Appeals:
If you are unhappy with the way a complaint has been handled you may be able to appeal. This section provides a brief overview of how the appeals process works, how and when to appeal, and the IPCC’s role in appeals.
If your appeal is against the investigation the police made into your complaint, please note we are handling a significant workload at present and, as a result, it could take up to 14 weeks from when we receive your appeal for us to consider it. We are doing what we can to reduce this time and we will keep you updated on the progress of your appeal.

Thanks you everyone for all your advice as it has really helped me deal with what happened to me and my dog. With your advice I think I have done everything I can to get something done about this.

To some people that perhaps have never owned a dog, this may seem a trivial thing. The impact on me and my family has been dramatic. I cannot see anyone in my family or any of my close friends, ever helping the police again as they seem to be as corrupt as our government are.

[seduraed]

Re: Getting information from the police about an incident

what about the elected police commissioner? Maybe a complaint to them so they can raise themselves out of the confy hair and do work. Remember these are elected officials and with the very low voting turnouts for the elections you could easily get a ginger group together to get a candidate you like elected .

[sloane82]

Re: Getting information from the police about an incident

Sorry to hear about this this is a terrible situation to be in I hope that this gets sorted out soon.