How do you take your council to court for everyone

[Crazy council]

My seem strange question, but i need to know what the suggested procedures might be.

The issues are fraud on a large scale, affecting over 10,000 households directly by false court actiosn. Its in relation to Liability orders gained, but its not the usual complaint.

My council, NELC, purposefully processed over 10,000 LO accounts, knowing they were false and illegal ( were for as low as a penny ).

I have been through the regulator route, and its took years, probably still over a year to go.

Its the legal officers at the council that have spent years delaying investigations, i do have some money to do this ( pay for the apps ), but i specificaly want to do it myself, not through a solicitor's,

I can fully calculate the fraudulent charges ( over 3.4mill ), and am wandering if we have anything like the americans class actions.

Any advice would be apprecheated

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

gosh, just re-read that an seen how much of an idiot i seem. so i will re-explain the question. First an explination.

I have been a anti corruption noisy b*&^%$£ , interested in council accounting systems. I have had, and won, 3 major legal cases over the last 5 years, One, the bankruptcy soley down to council tax LOs, some of the details are on here, but am not allowed to give many details due to the agreement i had to sign with the trustees, ..... but i can say, was given the keys back to my house, 2 years after the trustees had me evicted...and was compensated by another false claimant for my inconvenience ;-> .

Long story short, the accounts presented by the council ( CT and NNDR LOs ), were made up ( not due or paid ). This was done because i was noiseying about in relation to another common council fraud property transactions and compulsary purchase orders.

It was not the "council " what did it, its was the legal officer ( monitoring officer ). And if any of you understand the role of the monitoring officer within a council, when there are bent, or hiding paperwork, dealing with the regulators is not the best way forward. So i have over the past 2 years, bin planning how to force the issuse.

Non Nutter aleart --------- this is not a freeman of the land or any other crazy interpritation of court rules--------

Its a complex accounting fraud, were committing one type of fraud, hides a different fraud. And the fraud i have found in LOs, is not a wrongly served or not signed or any of the other loopholes ( bit crazy ), The council dept, knowingly procesed LOs for as low as a penny, to fudge a figure called the sucsessfull collection rates, its a % that they are externallyl audited on, If it drops below 94%, it automaticaly triggers external goverment audit, indeed this happened at my council in 2003, leading to the CEO being sacked.

what the legal officers and senoir managers did, was just slighly changed the way the systems accounts, to lift approx 3000 accs per year, on to the LOs systems, to hide them ( they are accounted as sucsessfull if they have LOs, regardless if they end up being correct ), and thus, fudging the figures by 3%

I will add to this after nine, i have a meeting to attend,

the guidence i think i need, is what would be the appropreate application method

[Amethyst]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

lol, thank you for clarifying that you're not a nutter I'm sorry you hadn't had a response earlier (I think it's just the complexity of the question rather than thinking you're under maritime law or whatever it is)

So basically, your council, and others (just remembering the queues at some courts over last few years with hundreds at '''hearings''' on same day and same time), issued applications for Liability Orders (rubberstamping exercise) through court for CT and business rates that were not in any arrears or had arrears of 1p, solely to make up targets on how many LO's they had issued that year?

You NEED some evidence. Have you been through the FOI routes ? Has that turned anything up ? Theres a lot on similar issues on Whatdotheyknow site.

Do you have evidence that there ARE targets for authorities to reach ? (in my fluffy world it would be good if a council issued less LO's as it would been CT was being paid)

what the legal officers and senoir managers did, was just slighly changed the way the systems accounts, to lift approx 3000 accs per year, on to the LOs systems, to hide them ( they are accounted as sucsessfull if they have LOs, regardless if they end up being correct ), and thus, fudging the figures by 3%

Do you have that evidence, are you a whistleblower from the ''inside'' or have one ? or is it supposition ?

Where is the complaint process at with the LGO ?


There were some changes to class actions a while back now, I think they are now group actions, and we have a few people on here who are experienced with these, but I'm sure you know that running a group action, as a Litigant in Person, is an immense undertaking with a shed load of risk even if you hardly get it off the ground (that's the disclaimer bit ) ie. It really needs looking at massively (and I'm sure you have but other than nosying at what others are up to across t'interwebby I' m not that up on the issues) and ensuring every angle is covered before embarking on a GA.

[IanM]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Which council?

So, you are saying the councils are illegally processing Liability Orders to avoid an external audit?

So, if a council was to create new account numbers and issue 10 LO's over an 8 year period on the same house, with 3 different account numbers, they are trying to hide some fraudulent activity?

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

thanks fo rthe replys both,

The council is NELC

Loads of my FOI request, all that got the data, are on the WDTK site, and some on my site ( older research )

On to each poster
Ian M

So, if a council was to create new account numbers and issue 10 LO's over an 8 year period on the same house, with 3 different account numbers, they are trying to hide some fraudulent activity?

No, they are mesured on something called BVPI indicators for council tax collection/charging accuracy, and tghey had to report the rates every 13 weeks. the figure is called the Sucsessfull Collection Rate ( SCR ). and that is callculated to mesure accuracy .

More to the point, your asking what was the mistakes i think.

Ok, payments other than DDs, ie standing orders, counter payments ------ and also, reductions or benefits, were not being processed through the accounts accurately or fast enough, large amounts of money was left in an account called the suspense account ( unallocated monies ). Prior to them changing the systems, they had to allocate all funds in the SA prior to taking action, and they was months behind, hence SCR rates lower than 94%.

All they did was change how the system reported things to make the figures look better, and it took me years of fighting through the ICO on many cases, to get the data released. This is clear to see in the figures when you see it.
http://www.crazycouncil.co.uk/council-tax
old but figures are accurate and it gives a break down of what they meen.

But basicaly, they knowingly got liability orders when they had payments on the systems, to change the figures they had to report.
Also, the law at the time says CT or NNDR has to be at least one months payment, one month in arrears. ( est £ 100 ). ther are thousands for under this figure, some as low as a penny,

There is no accounting reporting on the transaction between the SA and corrections to LOs, after they have been to court. And all accounts on LOs, are reported as successfully collected, regardless of weather they are or not, and all the corrections are hid within these transactions. The baillifs only hand the incorect ones back after the final yearly accounting period.

Just so you understand. at NELC, in 2005, amonst others, they changed the following account rules to CT and NNDR
1. Accounts due on the 1st of ewvery month instead of the end.
2. Action can be taken by council after 14 days late 1 payment.

They simply used those 2 rules in 2005 and put 70% of paid accounts, in arrears. At NELC, 1st Apr you get your bill ( ex £ 1000 or 10*100 due ). if you have not paid by 15th, you get a notice, then summons ( week 8 ) liability order for full amount by week 10.

And as the legally minded will know, you can not appeal a LO after 14 days, witch also means its very hard to get a judge to look at accounts behind the accounts if the council take further action, like attachment of earnings or legal proceedings.

Amythist

Hi, yes all info used is direct listings from FOI requests on WDTK, moslty had to fight for them.

(in my fluffy world it would be good if a council issued less LO's as it would been CT was being paid)

.

you would hope that was the case but accounts on LOs are reported as sucsessfull, regardless of if they are or not, and they dont have to report the corrections to LOs

Do you have that evidence, are you a whistleblower from the ''inside'' or have one ? or is it supposition ?

The monitoring officer is the one they have to whislte blow to, am not on the inside but have reasearched it properly.

I have unquestionable evidence, over many FOI responses, none supposition.

Where is the complaint process at with the LGO ?

It would be easyer to teach a stone statue calculus to A Grade than it would to get them morons at the LGO to understand even the most basic issue within council systems.

Group action

cheers i will check that out tomorrow

[enquirer]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

If you can assemble a reasonable amount of evidence, a better route might be exposure through the pages of a publication like Private Eye. This would be just the sort of thing for the 'Rotten Boroughs' column.

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

I was thinking the better time for the papers is after i start action. I have started last week, i have served notice on the court and ward councilors, identifying the accounting frauds to both and demanding a response in 14 days.

I will update this with any response and any action i find suitable.

Am eager to start court action because they can not lie on the documents to the court, thats not the case with the regulators though, they act more like unions.

Am eager to get them in court because i have unquestionable evidence of fraud. I think the court application will start a series of events that the officers will not be able to stop or slow down.

[wales01man]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Good luck with this the Councils and their Officers will if this goes anywhere will be fighting you with the best legal team Public money can buy again any corruption in Public service costs the tax and council taxpayer,

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Hi wales01man

I have had some experience fighting them and understand there blocks, but, Also...... best legal team money can buy......... lol, we are talking council officers here, The monitoring officer ( head of legal ) in a council is a regulated role, so he is easyer to get to than a solisitor.

point 2

They have clearly broken the law on a large scale and that has cost the public directly oput of there pockets. Specificaly, the working poor.

IE, no excuses s going to wash, i also have some back stuff with the police and regulators on these, all point back to the monitoring officer.

I do get what everyones saying, but its all about the way you approach dealing with it.

WHAT I HAVE DONE THIS WEEK.

both teh courts and the counil ( ward cllrs ) have had a demand served on them, identifying the illegal LOs, i demanded they propose a solution for repaying tyhe public ack the costs within 14 days or i demand they are suspended.

i will update when i have a responce from them. i have other paperwork to serve.

[wales01man]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Good luck if they pay the money back and are suspended it would be a modern miracle.

I support you 100% but does anyone think you will achieve what you want

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Hi

Bit further on this today, I recived a notification from the council legal team, basically just saying that if i make any allegations they will pursue me. Brilliant. thats what i expected, They will use any tactic to delay this, they have for 4 years already.

But, i expected this, and have a response. its not the first time that they have tried action against me, they tried to get my website taken down a few years ago, they got proper bitch slapped.

So, later today, i am going to make a formal allegation of harassment to the legal team, I have detailed every single allegation and told them if they wish to stop me they should take legal action in the next 14 days, and failure to take legal action will show there harassment....

I have 100% unquestionable evidence of a large fraud, run by the legal team and records manager, and hidden in the accounts systems..... I just need to get it in the correct arena, and because the fault also involves a fault by the court, the court is the best arena

[Amethyst]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Okay, Just mind you don't end up being charged with harrassment yourself and understand the risks of the action you are proposing fully.

Do you want to just list the rules you feel they have broken with the legal references and we can check them. I'm a bit concerned over your concerns on the arrears/advance payments part particularly.

Just so you understand. at NELC, in 2005, amonst others, they changed the following account rules to CT and NNDR
1. Accounts due on the 1st of ewvery month instead of the end.
2. Action can be taken by council after 14 days late 1 payment.

They simply used those 2 rules in 2005 and put 70% of paid accounts, in arrears. At NELC, 1st Apr you get your bill ( ex £ 1000 or 10*100 due ). if you have not paid by 15th, you get a notice, then summons ( week 8 ) liability order for full amount by week 10.

[enquirer]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Bit further on this today, I recived a notification from the council legal team, basically just saying that if i make any allegations they will pursue me.

How, for what, and to whom?

No local authority or government department may sue in Libel

Derbyshire CC v Times Newspapers Ltd (1993) AC 534 HL (Lord Keith, Lord Griffiths, Lord Goff of Chieveley, Lord Browne-Wilkinson and Lord Woolf), 18 February 1993. "... of the highest possible importance that a democratically elected governmental body, or indeed any governmental body, should be open to uninhibited public criticism and that the threat of a libel action would inevitably have an inhibiting effect on freedom of speech".

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

hi

I am going to use there threat of legal action as a pointer towards harassment, Its the third time they have tried. Both previous times they got slapped, more concerning, after they was told they could not take action before, they decided to write to my website company, asking them to take it down, they backed me up, refused to take it down.

You asked me to directly describe the fraud in relation to CT and the accounts systems.

The charge would be fraud. I will write up the exact details later today. They manipulated the accounts system, useing liablity orders tro remove accounts from the systems that mesure a marker called BVPI indicators ( 8 and 9 ) for CT and NNDR. This BVPI has a low marker ( 94% ). Any council that hits below (94%) gets instantly audited. It happened to my council NELC in 2002, The CEO was sacked.

The people who had been running the systems badly then promoted themselves into controll the system.

They simply falsy gained and extra 4000 liability orders falsly each year to improve there marker rate by 3-5%. The marker is only counted for a finacial year ( 9 months ). So all the corrections are done after this, so they do not have to be reported on the Accs systems.

Types of false accounts knowingly processed falsly.

accounts owing 1p only ( hundereds )
Accounts owing less then 1 months arrears ( many thousands )
gohst Accounts ( same accounts charged twice, different people, usualy tenant and landliord )

Improperly managed accounts.

Accounts without reductions procesed yet ( both CT and NNDR ) ( thousands )

Its took me years of research to track down the faults. The the people involved at the council will do everything possible to delay answering anything about the figures, i have had many delays by having to use the ICO.

The fraud ( fraud act ) is broken by 2 actions. Producing the lists of LOs for the court ( breaches the monitoring officers, legal heads conditions ). Swearing the lists at the court as being valid, when they know they are not.

[suffering]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Keep going CC its all interesting stuff!
can you elaborate on the law that has been broken i.e fraud act (any relivant case law to link it to)