Click and Collect Compensation

[teaboy2]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

It will depend on the actual losses the OP suffered.

Travel operators are notorious for fobbing people off with vouchers as alleged compensation for Holidays from Hell. The travel operator will claim it is full compensation. This is, in fact, untrue. All it does is hold the travel operator liable for the wholesale cost of the holiday, which may be significantly less than what the customer paid. The profit the travel operator has made from the customer has not been refunded as it should be. A full refund means exactly what it says and that is the price paid by the customer which is the wholesale cost plus the operator's profit.

I had a case where a certain computer store messed up a service on a computer I had taken in, necessitating my having to take it back. One of the staff lied to me that I was only entitled to store goods for the cost of fuel I had used to get home and then drive back because of their carelessness. What they offered me were goods I knew only cost them £1.50 wholesale. The actual loss I had suffered was considerably more than that. The General Manager was summoned and, give him all credit where it was due, even he agreed the member of staff was taking the piss. I was reimbursed, in full, in cash, by the General Manager.

Point about the voucher is that it can be used to purchase goods equal in value of £50, which is the value of the goods in real term. The company makes no profit as they are effectively giving the OP goods to the value of £50 for free, despite the fact that the cost/trade price of said goods is £30 for example. So they lose their £30 that the retailer paid for the goods and the £20 profit they would have otherwise made when selling said goods. Value of goods are determined by RRP/SRP, not trade prices. Trade/Wholesale price is irrelevant as you would never pay the trade or wholesale price when buying the goods in hard cash from the store - You would still have to pay the same value of the voucher for the goods if you purchased in cash.

So basically even though its a voucher, its equal in value to value of goods purchased with it. If you used it to purchase goods worth £5 you would get given £45 in cash change, tough some vouchers come with their own terms and conditions of use etc.

[bluebottle]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

Point about the voucher is that it can be used to purchase goods equal in value of £50, which is the value of the goods in real term. The company makes no profit as they are effectively giving the OP goods to the value of £50 for free, despite the fact that the cost/trade price of said goods is £30 for example. So they lose their £30 that the retailer paid for the goods and the £20 profit they would have otherwise made when selling said goods. Value of goods are determined by RRP/SRP, not trade prices. Trade/Wholesale price is irrelevant as you would never pay the trade or wholesale price when buying the goods in hard cash from the store - You would still have to pay the same value of the voucher for the goods if you purchased in cash.

So basically even though its a voucher, its equal in value to value of goods purchased with it. If you used it to purchase goods worth £5 you would get given £45 in cash change, tough some vouchers come with their own terms and conditions of use etc.

Valid point, TB. I do know some Trading Standards Officers who take a different view, but that is how they interpret the law. The biggest bugbear they have is with travel operators, whom I have said plenty about already. The view they take is if they can give vouchers, they can give the cash. In any case, the law is clear in that a refund for a Holiday from Hell means what it says, not offering the customer another potential Holiday from Hell.

[teaboy2]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

Valid point, TB. I do know some Trading Standards Officers who take a different view, but that is how they interpret the law. The biggest bugbear they have is with travel operators, whom I have said plenty about already. The view they take is if they can give vouchers, they can give the cash. In any case, the law is clear in that a refund for a Holiday from Hell means what it says, not offering the customer another potential Holiday from Hell.

I agree regarding holidays as you have other circumstances involved, including holiday entitlement at work etc. So a voucher for another holiday of the same value is not always practical and cash compensation should be given. To me there should be a choice between giving a voucher or cash for the consumer to choose between. Though in this case the consumer choose to accept the offer of the voucher simply by not refusing to accepted it, either at the counter or in writing (with voucher enclosed in same envelope).

But then if they do refuse the voucher, then as stated, they would only be entitled to claim actual loss.

We don't know whether an email was sent informing the OP the order was cancelled or whether the OP checked his emails after receiving the confirmation it would be available for pick up. If such email was sent, then the merchant/retailer would not be liable for any losses incurred as they had do everything reasonably possible inform the OP. Some will say they could have phoned the OP, but thats simply likely to not be practical and its unlikely as its a retail store, not a call centre - Plus its possible they had no phone contact number for the OP, as not all online websites ask for phone numbers or require them as mandatory.

[henrygregory]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

John Lewis are in breach of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, as they failed to exercise reasonable care and skill in the service they provided and in the supply of goods you ordered. The Act allows those affected by such failures to seek compensation for consequential loss, which includes the cost of fuel, car parking, etc.. Some retailers, mainly, multiples, are too ready to fob people off with vouchers and store goods that are often far less a loss to them than having to pay hard cash for the loss they have caused the customer. If more customers refused to accept giftcards and vouchers from retailers who have committed breaches of the law and torts against those customers and forced them to pay hard cash, as they should, retailers would make damn sure such shoddy service is addressed and the likelihood of it being repeated is significantly reduced.

Wow, what a lot of comments.
Bluebottle, your above quote is smashing and I would quite like to quote some of this to John Lewis if you don't mind.
To summarise, and hopefully answer some of your questions....
I have accepted nothing, I requested that they appropriately remunerate me based on the fact the only communication I received from JL was two emails stating that my order was ready to collect. I have it in print from John Lewis customer services that they admit they failed me and that they did not attempt to communicate with me via Phone, Letter or Email to tell me that my items were indeed out of stock.
I received an email from customer services admitting the above and suggesting that they would be sending me a £50 JL voucher as a gesture of good will.
Next thing I know, the voucher has arrived in the post. I have not agreed to this voucher, and I have certainly not spent it seeing as the whole experience has greatly put me off of shopping at John Lewis.

My original expenses were broken down as follows:

QUANTITY	DESCRIPTION					UNIT PRICE	AMOUNT
40	Journey to John Lewis Stratford calculated @ £0.40 per mile					0.40	£16.08
42	Return Journey to Home, from John Lewis Straford (@£0.40 pm)					0.40	£16.92
1	Stratford car park A, level 5 parking for one hour					2.50	£2.50
3	My personal time in dealing with this matter (litigant in person hourly rate of £18.00)					18.00	£54.00

The total came to: £89.50. Obviously, since then I have had to send a large volume of messages via email as they have not responded which has pushed up the time it has taken me in dealing with this matter. (Three hours may seem a lot, but it takes over an hour to get there, and then the same to drive all the way back again).


I completely endorse what Bluebottle says in his above comment. Companies are all too ready to fob customers off with vouchers which
a) are not of a value equal to the customer's losses
b) are for a store I most certainly will not be shopping with again.

I am not trying to be greedy, but I am sick and tired of being treated badly. John Lewis should know better and I am not going to let this drop. I often hear them in the news being refereed to as the bench mark of retail. The company all other retailers look to follow. If my experience is anything to go by, then we should all be very worried.

[bluebottle]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

Wow, what a lot of comments.
Bluebottle, your above quote is smashing and I would quite like to quote some of this to John Lewis if you don't mind.
To summarise, and hopefully answer some of your questions....
I have accepted nothing, I requested that they appropriately remunerate me based on the fact the only communication I received from JL was two emails stating that my order was ready to collect. I have it in print from John Lewis customer services that they admit they failed me and that they did not attempt to communicate with me via Phone, Letter or Email to tell me that my items were indeed out of stock.
I received an email from customer services admitting the above and suggesting that they would be sending me a £50 JL voucher as a gesture of good will.
Next thing I know, the voucher has arrived in the post. I have not agreed to this voucher, and I have certainly not spent it seeing as the whole experience has greatly put me off of shopping at John Lewis.

My original expenses were broken down as follows:

QUANTITY	DESCRIPTION					UNIT PRICE	AMOUNT
40	Journey to John Lewis Stratford calculated @ £0.40 per mile					0.40	£16.08
42	Return Journey to Home, from John Lewis Straford (@£0.40 pm)					0.40	£16.92
1	Stratford car park A, level 5 parking for one hour					2.50	£2.50
3	My personal time in dealing with this matter (litigant in person hourly rate of £18.00)					18.00	£54.00

The total came to: £89.50. Obviously, since then I have had to send a large volume of messages via email as they have not responded which has pushed up the time it has taken me in dealing with this matter. (Three hours may seem a lot, but it takes over an hour to get there, and then the same to drive all the way back again).


I completely endorse what Bluebottle says in his above comment. Companies are all too ready to fob customers off with vouchers which
a) are not of a value equal to the customer's losses
b) are for a store I most certainly will not be shopping with again.

I am not trying to be greedy, but I am sick and tired of being treated badly. John Lewis should know better and I am not going to let this drop. I often hear them in the news being refereed to as the bench mark of retail. The company all other retailers look to follow. If my experience is anything to go by, then we should all be very worried.

It sounds to me that John Lewis has ridden roughshod over your statutory rights and effectively stuck two fingers up to the law governing the situation in your case. It might not be a bad idea to speak to a Trading Standards Officer at your local Trading Standards Department office about this matter as they may have had other similar complaints about John Lewis. They can also clarify any issues relating to your case and the application of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

[henrygregory]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

It sounds to me that John Lewis has ridden roughshod over your statutory rights and effectively stuck two fingers up to the law governing the situation in your case. It might not be a bad idea to speak to a Trading Standards Officer at your local Trading Standards Department office about this matter as they may have had other similar complaints about John Lewis. They can also clarify any issues relating to your case and the application of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

Ok, thanks again for your useful post. I will certainly get in touch with Trading Standards.
One question though, you mention my local office, should it be the office local to the store (Westfields Stratford) or local to my home address) They are both quite some distance apart and will undoubtedly have different local offices.

[bluebottle]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

Ok, thanks again for your useful post. I will certainly get in touch with Trading Standards.
One question though, you mention my local office, should it be the office local to the store (Westfields Stratford) or local to my home address) They are both quite some distance apart and will undoubtedly have different local offices.

It will be the one local to your home. A lot of general consumer matters are routed through CAB these days. However, the advice they give can vary between good and poor. A TSO would, in all probability, provide you with more informed advice. It might be a good idea to phrase your enquiry with TS in a way that tells them you are aware of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, but wish to clarify a number of issues relating to the Act. If you say you want to make a complaint against John Lewis, you may be referred to CAB as they act as a clearing house for consumer complaints.

[henrygregory]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

It will be the one local to your home. A lot of general consumer matters are routed through CAB these days. However, the advice they give can vary between good and poor. A TSO would, in all probability, provide you with more informed advice. It might be a good idea to phrase your enquiry with TS in a way that tells them you are aware of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, but wish to clarify a number of issues relating to the Act. If you say you want to make a complaint against John Lewis, you may be referred to CAB as they act as a clearing house for consumer complaints.

Ok, sound advice again bluebottle, I am most grateful! I will drop them a line and update this thread accordingly. :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[henrygregory]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

This is what I have drafted, hopefully this explains the situation.

Dear sirs,
I would be most grateful if you might be able to clarify a number of issues relating to the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, in relation to a recent negative experience I received from John Lewis.

To summarise,
On the morning of Thursday 21^st November 2013, I completed an online order with John Lewis. I selected to collect my items from store (Westfield, Stratford City). The transaction completed with no problems and over the course of the next 48 hours, I received two emails from John Lewis. One confirming that my order had been acknowledged. The second to confirm that my order was complete and ready for collection at John Lewis, Westfield, Stratford City, London.

On Saturday 23^rd of November, I printed out the confirmation email I had received and headed to John Lewis to collect my order. I was most disappointed to find that after driving for well over one hour to get to the store, the order was not even there.
After speaking with a customer service advisor on the phone, I was told that the item in my order was actually out of stock and there had never been any delivery. I had to leave the store empty handed and had to spend a further hour driving back home.
On my return, I sent John Lewis a letter of complaint explaining the situation and requesting that John Lewis remunerate me for my time, mileage and parking charges.
To date, John Lewis have sent me a £50.00 John Lewis voucher, something I have not asked for or accepted. I have contacted them to explain that this is not a suitable form of remuneration and to date have had no response from them. I have found their staff to be difficult to respond and I don’t believe that John Lewis have appropriately considered the law in relation to the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. John Lewis have clearly failed to exercise reasonable care and skill in the service they have provided and in the supply of the goods I ordered.
I have a clear confirmation of responsibility in print from the customer service manager I had been dealing with at John Lewis that they admit they failed to effectively communicate with me:
“The area where we have undoubtedly let you down is that we failed to communicate this status to you, resulting in your abortive journey to the John Lewis Stratford City store. Our system is set to highlight these orders and to create an automated email or prompt a telephone call to the customer. Neither of these events happened on this order, which I most sincerely apologise for.”

Can you please clarify for me if this situation is as I expect a breach of the above mentioned act has occurred and if so, am I legally entitled to seek compensation for consequential loss which would include the cost of fuel and car parking?

[wales01man]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

have you returned the voucher?

[bluebottle]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

Hi HenryGregory,

John Lewis have admitted to a failure to exercise reasonable care and skill in the supply of goods to you that resulted in you suffering consequential loss as a result. That is no longer an issue. What you need to do now is speak to a Trading Standards Officer and clarify the position as to the compensation you can claim from John Lewis. Unless I am very much mistaken- and the reason I have advised you to contact Trading Standards - is John Lewis's offer of a voucher as compensation. I do know that with many consumer disputes, the trader has no say in how compensation or refunds are made and the choice as to how it is paid is up to the consumer. However, a favourite ploy of some retailers is they will either try and use "Goodwill gesture" as a way out or "We can only give vouchers, store goods, etc.." The other thing some retailer try and do is coerce consumers by using "company policy" as a reason. "Company policy" is total ballcocks as a company's policy cannot override or supersede case or statute law. This is why you need to speak to a TSO. They will or should know the current situation as regards compensation in consumer disputes, particularly with regards to breaches of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

[henrygregory]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

No not yet. I just put it back in the envelope and promptly emailed the two contacts @MissFM kindly posted in this thread. I explained that this was not what I was expecting and doesn't cut it.

Someone replied back saying they were very sorry I had experienced such bad service and would look into my case again.
Since then, have heard nothing again!

[henrygregory]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

Hi HenryGregory,

John Lewis have admitted to a failure to exercise reasonable care and skill in the supply of goods to you that resulted in you suffering consequential loss as a result. That is no longer an issue. What you need to do now is speak to a Trading Standards Officer and clarify the position as to the compensation you can claim from John Lewis. Unless I am very much mistaken- and the reason I have advised you to contact Trading Standards - is John Lewis's offer of a voucher as compensation. I do know that with many consumer disputes, the trader has no say in how compensation or refunds are made and the choice as to how it is paid is up to the consumer. However, a favourite ploy of some retailers is they will either try and use "Goodwill gesture" as a way out or "We can only give vouchers, store goods, etc.." The other thing some retailer try and do is coerce consumers by using "company policy" as a reason. "Company policy" is total ballcocks as a company's policy cannot override or supersede case or statute law. This is why you need to speak to a TSO. They will or should know the current situation as regards compensation in consumer disputes, particularly with regards to breaches of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

Thanks bluebottle, that all makes clear sense. You have been a huge help

[CleverClogs]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

John Lewis should know better

Too damn right they should.

They should have re-ordered the item(s), provided free delivery and given a £50 voucher as a gesture of good will, along with a contrite apology.

[henrygregory]

Re: Click and Collect Compensation

Too damn right they should.

They should have re-ordered the item(s), provided free delivery and given a £50 voucher as a gesture of good will, along with a contrite apology.

When I got to store and established that there had been a cock up. I was asked to 'come back another day' Good thing I didn't as it would not have helped in the slightest. I demanded to speak to a manager and all responsibility was passed on to the 'web team' with the store taking no responsibility. I was told I would need to ring them, to which I replied, not from my phone. I was given a phone and spoke to someone in the web orders customer service department. She offered to send my order to me but said I would need to pay for delivery as it didn't meet the minimum order value for free delivery. Outraged, I said at the very least I expected free delivery to which she replied, on this occasion we are happy to offer you free delivery, but I just need to put you on hold whilst my manager authorises it. About five minutes later (and hearing several other frustrated customers in the exact same position as me kicking off) she came back on the line and said no sorry we can't do this as the items on your order are out of stock, I am going to have to cancel your order. I was in utter disbelief! The lady I spoke to on the phone did apologise but was incredibly monotone and sounded so uninterested. In my original letter of complaint, I compared the whole experience to something I might have expected from Argos or similar, not John Lewis. And quite on the contrary, I recently visited an Argos store (somewhere I seldom go) and was absolutely astonished by the fantastic service I received from an incredibly helpful customer assistant.

But to summarise, John Lewis did offer to send items to me for free after I demanded free delivery, but there was never any mention of good will gestures.

I think this case is a good example of slipping standards on the highstreet. As I said in another post, many retailers look at John Lewis as the benchmark in retail. I am not convinced in the slightest and think that they really need to re-evaluate the way they treat their customers.