Need to appeal a County Court decision

[kaput]

Hi,

My local court recently held a hearing between myself and a payday loan company. Neither party attended and the Judge ruled in favour of the Claimant and dismissed my Counterclaim.

Five days before the hearing I sent form N244 to the Court to ask for an adjournment on medical grounds. I explained my reasons and sent some supporting evidence (although this was not a letter from my GP). The Court returned my N244 stating that a court hearing can only be adjourned in one of two ways:

1. By written consent of all parties
2. By order of the court

It was my intention, by applying, to gain a Court order for adjournment as I was unable to get consent of the Claimant. Why would the Court return the form to me? It should have been obvious what I wanted to do!

The letter stated: "Your current email/letter will be placed on the court file without any further action. If the court does not receive any application, as above, then the hearing will go ahead as planned. At the hearing the Judge will consider your email/letter and make an appropriate order which may include continuing with the hearing in your absence".

The hearing of course went ahead. In the letter I received with the Judge's decision, no mention was made to my application for adjournment. Is there any way I can check this was even taken into account by the Judge? Surely with neither party attending, but one party declaring they are medically unfit to attend, the Judge would give benefit of the doubt and adjourn?

What are my options now? How do I appeal? There is no way I owe anywhere near the amount claimed by the Claimant. I do not feel justice has been carried out.

[enquirer]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

Write to the court manager, asking for an explanation as to why your application was apparently not placed before the court.

[ploddertom]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

You should have asked to Vacate the Hearing.

[kaput]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

I've contact my local Court asking if the application was put before a Judge as the Court said they would do.

I did not pay a fee for my application and this may be why it was returned. I did not know a fee was due at the time.

The court say I would be best off applying to have the judgement set aside. I have the following reasons:

1. I was medically unfit to attend court (can get GP evidence) so didn't get chance to defend myself. It would be in the interests of justice to allow me to.
2. Judgement probably doesn't say it deducts any payments I had made to the Claimant between the date they submitted their claim and the date of the hearing, therefore the amount cannot possibly be correct
3. The Claimant promised to withdraw their claim upon receipt of payment from my and the negotiation of an arrangement to pay
4. TBC: My application for adjournment may have not been seen by the Judge

Are these reasons strong enough?

The Claimant was willing to settle for a significantly reduced amount after much negotiation. Could this be used too?

[labman]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

Who was the lender and what was the interest rate?

How much was borrowed and over what period?

What was the total sum repayable?

Do you have a copy of the agreement you could redact and post up?

You may find these give stronger reasons for a set aside, or significant variation in judgment than the ones you have mentioned.

You don't need to answer this here, but if the medical reason was anything to do with mental health, then you might also have stronger grounds.



http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...l/rules/part13

[kaput]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

Hi Labman,

The lender was Safeloans. I'll get all the other details together soon. I received a response from the Court today:

I have checked the Court file and, unfortunately, a copy of the application was not taken and placed on file when it was returned to you therefore, the Judge was unaware that you had sought an adjournment. I apologise for this oversight.

This is outrageous. I assume this can now also add weight to an application to set aside?

[adelaine041]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

Ask your attorney if it is okay to ask the judge if he has received the letter you have sent.

[kaput]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

Ask your attorney if it is okay to ask the judge if he has received the letter you have sent.

Hi, I'm a litigant in person so can't do this. But I've already asked the court if the Judge saw my application (N244) as they promised he would. They didn't put it in my file and dismissed the mistake as mere "oversight".

[Amethyst]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

An application for a set aside sounds like it is your best bet to get the case reheard. We would need more detail about your case (the questions labman has asked) though to have a better idea whether a set aside likely to succeed - you have to show a real chance of success in defending the claim against you. Also some details on your counterclaim would be of use.

[PlanB]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

I did not pay a fee for my application and this may be why it was returned. I did not know a fee was due at the time.

The court say I would be best off applying to have the judgement set aside. I have the following reasons:

1. I was medically unfit to attend court (can get GP evidence) so didn't get chance to defend myself. It would be in the interests of justice to allow me to.
2. Judgement probably doesn't say it deducts any payments I had made to the Claimant between the date they submitted their claim and the date of the hearing, therefore the amount cannot possibly be correct

If you're not in work or on benefits you won't have to pay a court fee, but you do have to apply for remission at the same time as making your application which seems to be where you went wrong. This will also apply to your application for a set-aside if you are entitled to remission.

Since you've already made payments to the claimant after they issued the claim this suggests you are admitting the claim but want to have your counterclaim heard which is perfectly reasonable especially if your counterclaim is greater than the claim.

Here is information on how to apply for a set-aside. Strictly speaking the court expects you to do this within 14 days of the judgment but there can be exceptions:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/en...e_county_court

[PlanB]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

The Claimant promised to withdraw their claim upon receipt of payment from my and the negotiation of an arrangement to pay

^^^^ Did you get that in writing? If the claimant promised to discontinue these proceedings upon receipt of payment and/or an ATP and you have made that payment/arrangement (you've said you did make payments) then I would think you have a good chance of getting a set-aside especially if the Claimant is willing to co-operate with a Witness Statement to that effect I assume they didn't go to the hearing for that very reason either :noidea:

[kaput]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies. I'm on my lunch at work so still can't provide all the information labman asked for, but I can flesh things out with a few more facts.

An application for a set aside sounds like it is your best bet to get the case reheard. We would need more detail about your case (the questions labman has asked) though to have a better idea whether a set aside likely to succeed - you have to show a real chance of success in defending the claim against you. Also some details on your counterclaim would be of use.

Most of the amount claimed by the Claimant is made up of additional interest and charges beyond the original capital amount plus one month's interest. This combined with the facts that the claimant ignored all of my reasonable offers until after they'd made a claim [7] and their service wasn't working as described [2], I think I have a strong defence. I also intend to repay the remainder of the £258 on my next payday which means I don't really owe them anything except the ridiculous penalty charges and interest.

My counterclaim is detailed in [8].

If you're not in work or on benefits you won't have to pay a court fee, but you do have to apply for remission at the same time as making your application which seems to be where you went wrong. This will also apply to your application for a set-aside if you are entitled to remission.

Since you've already made payments to the claimant after they issued the claim this suggests you are admitting the claim but want to have your counterclaim heard which is perfectly reasonable especially if your counterclaim is greater than the claim.

Here is information on how to apply for a set-aside. Strictly speaking the court expects you to do this within 14 days of the judgment but there can be exceptions:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/en...e_county_court

Unfortunately I didn't realise payment was required when I submitted the N244 otherwise I would have made it. This doesn't change the fact the Court promised to show my application to the Judge but then forgot to place it on my file.

I'm not admitting the claim, only part of it and I intend to repay that part on my next payday, meaning if I get the judgement set aside, I can defend the entire remainder at the subsequent hearing and not get a CCJ.

The hearing was on the 20th September so the 14 days have already passed. My GP only works part-time which means there's a long delay for appointments to see her. The earliest I could get (and have booked) is 14th October. Is this delay in obtaining supporting evidence reasonable? Or should I submit my application for set aside with the evidence to follow?

^^^^ Did you get that in writing? If the claimant promised to discontinue these proceedings upon receipt of payment and/or an ATP and you have made that payment/arrangement (you've said you did make payments) then I would think you have a good chance of getting a set-aside especially if the Claimant is willing to co-operate with a Witness Statement to that effect I assume they didn't go to the hearing for that very reason either :noidea:

I do have it in writing, but the claimant definitely will not co-operate. I couldn't even get them to agree to the proposed adjournment. Then they didn't even show up!! No idea why they didn't show up. They told me they intended to.

-------------------------

1. In late November/early December 2012, I applied for a £200 loan with Safeloans, and the agreed interest was £58, making £258 repayable on the 25th.

2. I attempted early repayment on Safeloans' website, but their online payment system wasn't working (I have since obtained written admission of this). I was unable to phone and make the payment as I'd used up my lunch break phoning my bank to find out why the payment didn't go through.

3. By time I finished work, Safeloans' office was closed. As it was so close to Christmas and all the bank holidays etc, I was not able to get in touch with them for a number of days passed the repayment date.

4. Safeloans systems allows a discount on the interest for early repayment.

5. When I finally got in touch with Safeloans again, I offered to pay £250 which was what I would have paid if their online system was working when I attempted early repayment. They flat out refused and wanted the interest and charges that had been added on since the due date. I did not pay.

6. I was reliant on Safeloans' service, but as my account had fallen into arrears I was not comfortable on assuming their automated system would grant me a loan in the future. With that in mind, I sent a formal complaint to Safeloans offering repayment in five monthly instalments and explicitly withdrew my offer of £250. They wrote back and accepted my "offer" of £250. I obviously could not repay this without knowing if their system would grant another loan once I'd repaid.

7. Over the following months, I emailed Safeloans many times making offers of monthly repayment, but they always ignored the offers. Even if they replied to the email, they refused to even acknowledge an offer had been made.

8. When Safeloans' claim for over £600 on my £258 debt finally came, I decided to fight it. I also counterclaimed: a. A day off work to defend this unnecessary claim (Safeloans should have negotiated repayment to avoid legal action); b. a week's wages in compensation for the unnecessary harassment I received by way of phonecalls to my workplace and the embarrassment they caused (I was in extremely regular email contact with Safeloans so these calls were totally unnecessary); c. 5 hours at my freelance website development rate for the massive amount of time I've wasted trying to get them to come to a fair arrangement. Total was almost £800.

9. Sometime after they started these proceedings, Safeloans FINALLY agreed to accept my offer. Upon receipt of my first payment they stated (in writing) that they would inform the court to close the claim. This didn't happen.

10. Shortly after I made my first payment I unexpectedly lost my job and was unable to continue the arrangement. I let Safeloans know and made an offer of token payments until more money was coming through, but they ignored me yet again.

11. A hearing was set for 20th September.

12. On 15th September I submitted my N244 to request an adjournment on medical grounds (depression and suspected Aspergers). I submitted evidence of the Aspergers but I did not have time to submit evidence of the depression from my GP.

13. On 19th September the N244 was returned to me but with a promise the Judge at the hearing would see it. The Court did not place my N244 and supporting evidence in front of the judge as promised.

14. On 20th September the hearing went ahead in the absence of both parties. No idea why Safeloans didn't bother to turn up.

15. On 26th September the court sent me the Judgement Order which required forthwith payment (14 days) to the Claimant. Counterclaim dismissed.

[Amethyst]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

Thanks.

As I understand it you admitted and offered to pay the £258?? in your response to the court claim but have defended the charges and counterclaimed for your time.

A copy of the credit agreement would be of assistance. Their terms (and details of charges/interest etc are https://www.safeloans.co.uk/terms-and-conditions . )

Major thing is do you have a breakdown of the amounts claimed ?


So generally then, I don't think the 'I tried to pay but their systems were down and I didn't have time to phone them ' will stand up in court as a defence, you'd also need to list the exact days which were christmas and bank holidays and when Safeloans were open/closed regarding your opportunity to contact them. ( I understand they have an automated payment line so was this working throughout that period, for example.)

Possibly also the fact of reliance upon further loans from SafeLoans is concerning and doesn't assist your defence.

You'd be better defending on the offered repayment plan and being ignored, although the offer of the £250 then the withdrawal of that offer in favour of monthly payments may not help your case in that respect.

However, that SafeLoans took the claim out after you had made a further offer of weekly token payments due to loss of employment is probably a point in your favour.

Best would be to see the paperwork (remove any personal info), original claim, defence and counterclaim. I'm not too concerned over the N244 at the moment (other than to complain to court over their procedures) as if there isn't a defence to the original claim then it is pointless to expend more to set aside the judgement and you would be better applying for a variation of the judgment to installments as opposed to forthwith.

[kaput]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

Thanks.

As I understand it you admitted and offered to pay the £258?? in your response to the court claim but have defended the charges and counterclaimed for your time.

A copy of the credit agreement would be of assistance. Their terms (and details of charges/interest etc are https://www.safeloans.co.uk/terms-and-conditions . )

I'll be able to dig this out when I'm home this evening.

Major thing is do you have a breakdown of the amounts claimed ?

I can provide their POC later (I can't seem to access it on MCOL). They supplied a statement of account in April:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|Transaction Date         |Transaction         |Money Out|Money In |Balance  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|11/26/2012               |Bank Transfer       |200.00   |0.00     |200.00  |
|12/23/2012 - 11/26/2012  |Fee Interest        |56.00    |0.00     |256.00  |
|12/24/2012               |Charge              |12.00    |0.00     |268.00  |
|12/24/2012               |Charge              |7.50     |0.00     |275.50  |
|12/28/2012 - 12/24/2012  |Fee Interest        |10.00    |0.00     |285.50  |
|12/29/2012               |Charge              |30.00    |0.00     |315.50  |
|12/30/2012 - 12/29/2012  |Fee Interest        |4.00     |0.00     |319.50  |
|12/31/2012               |Charge              |7.50     |0.00     |327.00  |
|01/08/2013 - 12/31/2012  |Fee Interest        |18.00    |0.00     |345.00  |
|01/09/2013               |Charge              |7.50     |0.00     |352.50  |
|01/24/2013 - 01/09/2013  |Fee Interest        |32.00    |0.00     |384.50  |
|01/26/2013               |Charge              |12.00    |0.00     |396.50  |
|02/19/2013               |Charge              |75.00    |0.00     |471.50  |
|02/19/2013               |Charge              |75.00    |0.00     |546.50  |
|04/29/2013               |Transfer            |0.00     |51.60    |494.90  |
|04/29/2013               |Charge              |55.00    |0.00     |549.90  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           Totals               601.50    51.60               
                                                                              
                           Current Balance      549.90                       
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've tried to get them to explain all the items labelled as 'charge' but they won't.

You'd be better defending on the offered repayment plan and being ignored, although the offer of the £250 then the withdrawal of that offer in favour of monthly payments may not help your case in that respect.

Safeloans rejected the offer of £250, so I was making it clear it was no longer on the table when I offered monthly repayments. I didn't offer £250 and then change my mind before they had a chance to consider it. They outright refused it, and I made the offer on the basis their systems were broken and that's what I would have paid on the day I attempted to make payment. Any reasonable company should have accepted that.

However, that SafeLoans took the claim out after you had made a further offer of weekly token payments due to loss of employment is probably a point in your favour.

The claim was made before I lost my job, but they did continue the action despite being informed of my circumstances.

if there isn't a defence to the original claim then it is pointless to expend more to set aside the judgement and you would be better applying for a variation of the judgment to installments as opposed to forthwith.

But if I can repay the amount borrowed plus the agreed interest, then could there be a full defence to the claim?

[Amethyst]

Re: Need to appeal a County Court decision

From the fees & charges stuff - 3 letters @ 7.50, 1 pass to collections @ 30.00, 60 days interest @ 1% a day (£120), late payment fee @ 12.00, plus the capital sum are all ok (debatable on the date you first tried to make payment but justifiable if that argument is ignored) 384.50




Less your payment

|04/29/2013 |Transfer |0.00 |51.60 |494.90 |


So these charges need working out.

|01/26/2013 |Charge |12.00 |0.00 |396.50 |
|02/19/2013 |Charge |75.00 |0.00 |471.50 |
|02/19/2013 |Charge |75.00 |0.00 |546.50 |
|04/29/2013 |Charge |55.00 |0.00 |549.90


What date was the court claim? Are they related to that.


There is mention of a failed arrangement fee which could account for the other £12.00, or poss
4.5.5 £12.00 if sent a Default Notice and OFT default information sheet

(did you have a default notice?)