Driving with no licence....what next??

[jon1965]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

Wales, you do seem to have missed the point. The OP did not know they were driving without a valid licence and there may be reasons for that which were totally out of their control. I think your stance of throw the book at them without knowing the full story is a typical (not necessarily yours) knee jerk reaction. As I argued with Eloise a long while ago, this is why we have a court system so that the punishments should fit the crime and be consistent. If you disagree with that then start a campaign
To be honest, if there had been an accident and someone killed the main question would have been what caused the "accident" not about the licence.

[wales01man]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

Ignorance is no defence?

[charitynjw]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

Wales, you do seem to have missed the point. The OP did not know they were driving without a valid licence and there may be reasons for that which were totally out of their control. I think your stance of throw the book at them without knowing the full story is a typical (not necessarily yours) knee jerk reaction. As I argued with Eloise a long while ago, this is why we have a court system so that the punishments should fit the crime and be consistent. If you disagree with that then start a campaign
To be honest, if there had been an accident and someone killed the main question would have been what caused the "accident" not about the licence.

Hi jon1965

Some offenses are 'strict liability' - intent, or mens rea, does not come into it.

[Inca]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

I only found out by default that I had been revoked...when I challenged DVLA their answer was basically 'Lucky you didn't get caught....your licence,,your job to make sure it's valid'

[jon1965]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

Ignorance is no defence?

Are you asking me a question?

I didn't say it was a defence, I said it was mitigation. The crux of my argument was that if they were to "throw the book" at the OP who has mitigation, what are they going to do to someone who willfully does it with full knowledge and intent..there is only 1 book to throw. Is that a fair justice system, I think not

If ignorance was a defence then there would be a lot of serious criminals walking free

[charitynjw]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

Anyone have any thoughts re post #15?

[Sapphire]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

There used to be an opportunity to plead guilty but with 'special reasons', which, if accepted by the court, could lead to no points, etc.

Is that still applicable?

I tried that in 1994 when I got done for driving without insurance, my mitigating circumstances were that my dad had died an hour before and I was trying to get to my mum. When I went to court I was told that although they were sorry for my situation it wasn't a good enough reason, I got a nice fine and 6 points :tinysmile_cry_t:

[Tools]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

There used to be an opportunity to plead guilty but with 'special reasons', which, if accepted by the court, could lead to no points, etc.

Is that still applicable?

Yes Charity it still applies, it is unlikely that NO points/fine will be given though. If you read my post #8, the punishment shown is a MAXIMUM, the Magistrate will take mitigation from the offender into consideration.

As Sapphire posted, she got 6 points and £xx fine, as her case was heard in Court she could have received a maximum of £5000 fine/ a driving ban / 6-8 points / her car crushed. So in her case mitigation was taken into consideration although it may not have felt like it at the time

[labman]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

Anyone have any thoughts re post #15?

Straight from the horse's mouth - well, a specialist motoring solicitors:

http://www.mcmillansmotoringsolicito...pecial-reasons

It serves to reinforce the above.

[bluebottle]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

Straight from the horse's mouth - well, a specialist motoring solicitors:

http://www.mcmillansmotoringsolicito...pecial-reasons

It serves to reinforce the above.

The Crown Prosecution Service's Legal Guidance website would probably be a better point of reference. It is more authoritative and up-to-date than a commercial solicitor's website. And just to throw a spanner in the works, some motoring offences are Absolute Offences. Most of these are in the Motor Vehicle (Construction & Use) Regulations.

[jon1965]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

All sentencing is now done by guidelines. Starting point then mitigation and aggravation gives rise to the penalty. I know of a case (not motoring, a bit more serious) starting point was 2 years inside but because of mitigation (no thanks to the barrister) the final sentence was 12 months suspended and unpaid work. It seems that a guilty plea at the first available opportunity gives a 30% discount

[labman]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

The Crown Prosecution Service's Legal Guidance website would probably be a better point of reference. It is more authoritative and up-to-date than a commercial solicitor's website. And just to throw a spanner in the works, some motoring offences are Absolute Offences. Most of these are in the Motor Vehicle (Construction & Use) Regulations.

I'm sure you're right there BB. Out of interest, have you thrown a spanner in the works?

IE - would this offence be classed as an Absolute Offence or not?

:beagle:My limited understanding of an absollute offence is that the prosecution only needs to show the act happened, and doesn't need to prove any element of fault. I think it also means the defence cannot rely on any factual mistake. That doesn't mean they can't explain special circumstances though does it?

[jon1965]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

Lab, as far as I know, an absolute offence is just that..driving without insurance, or tax for example. It is a fact but there is still mitigation

[labman]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

So, with no offence intended to BB, his point about absolute offences is irrelevant here, as mitigation still happens. (Sorry BB!:tinysmile_kiss_t4 It doesn't actually throw any spanner in the works. :beagle:

[labman]

Re: Driving with no licence....what next??

So, taking into account BB's helpful insight, I've read the CPS Guidelines attached. As far as I can see, if the defendant enters a guilty plea, page 21 section 9.4 still allows for mitigating circumstances.