Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

[samsmoot]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

And a crime which is so very serious that it might result in a Conditional Discharge or even a Binding Over order.

Do I detect sarcasm?

[samsmoot]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

Are there no windmills where you live?

No, just c*nts.

[bluebottle]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

Okay. It sounds like the council has gone scuttling off to the County Court seeking a Possession or Eviction Order on the pretence that there has been persistent non-payment of rent when, in fact, rent has been paid and the council is apparently not recording payments, which would give the impression of non-payment. At best, it is misleading the court and if a legal professional is involved, that is professional misconduct on their part. On the council's part, it could amount to Vexatious, even, Malicious Litigation. However, I will wait for one of our more learned members or confirm this or otherwise. If a County Court judge is of the view that the council's attempts to evict are vexatious or malicious, he or she can strike-out the case, either because it has no merit or, if it were to be allowed to proceed, it would result in a miscarriage or justice or injustice to the defendant. However, a judge would have to make their decision based on the evidence placed before them. Do not forget that under Civil Procedures Rules, a court can dispose with a case by making a decision of its own initiative and without a hearing. It therefore follows that if a judge can see from the bundles submitted by both sides that one side is clearly attempting to mislead the court, then provision exists to prevent the case proceeding to a hearing.

If you are looking at seeking civil damages against the council, you would need to ensure you have very strong evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the council that would stand up to cross-examination, if necessary.

As for attempting to obtain a Liability Order for alleged non-payment of Council Tax, as this is done through the Magistrates Court, any proceedings would need to be routed through that court, not the County Court. However, because of the manner in which Liability Orders are processed, an appeal would need to be made to the Magistrates Court involved to quash the Liability Order on the grounds that it was granted either in error or the council had no grounds in law to seek a Liability Order. I do not know if you would be able to seek costs against the council as it appears to be very much at the discretion of the Justices or District or Deputy District Judge hearing the appeal.

Whether issuing, or attempting to issue or threatening to issue court proceedings which a claimant (civil cases) or complainant (mainly criminal cases) would amount to A Course of Conduct Amounting to Harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (as amended) is a question only a court could answer.

Causing Alarm, Distress or Harassment under the Public Order Act 1986 requires more than one instance of such behaviour and, to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is not something you can litigate through a civil court. It is a criminal provision. There is, however, a civil remedy provision under Section 3, Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (as amended), but it is a measure of very last resort when all other attempts and measures to abate harassment have failed. Any harassment has to be sustained and sufficient for the criminal courts to intervene.

Misconduct and Misfeasance in Public Office are criminal offences and fall under the scope and ambit of the Criminal Law.

To be honest, you would be wise to seek professional legal advice as to how best to proceed in this matter.

[samsmoot]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

Thanks, bluebottle, for your intelligent and relevant responses. I'll just mention a couple of things to make the facts clear.

If you are looking at seeking civil damages against the council, you would need to ensure you have very strong evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the council that would stand up to cross-examination, if necessary.

Yes, civil damages would be great if they could be gotten. The evidence is strong against the FIO, and the Council have certainly been malicious in their two threats of court action. Cross examination is for criminal cases, is it not? CC is more inquisitorial, but I get your point.

As for attempting to obtain a Liability Order for alleged non-payment of Council Tax, as this is done through the Magistrates Court, any proceedings would need to be routed through that court, not the County Court. However, because of the manner in which Liability Orders are processed, an appeal would need to be made to the Magistrates Court involved to quash the Liability Order on the grounds that it was granted either in error or the council had no grounds in law to seek a Liability Order. I do not know if you would be able to seek costs against the council as it appears to be very much at the discretion of the Justices or District or Deputy District Judge hearing the appeal.

The Liability Order Hearing was stopped by the Council due to being threatened with a very large claim for damages, and the Clerk of the Court was told how it needs to go - ie the Council need to be substituted or added as Defendant. That would have been interesting: Council v Themselves.

Whether issuing, or attempting to issue or threatening to issue court proceedings which a claimant (civil cases) or complainant (mainly criminal cases) would amount to A Course of Conduct Amounting to Harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (as amended) is a question only a court could answer.

Causing Alarm, Distress or Harassment under the Public Order Act 1986 requires more than one instance of such behaviour and, to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is not something you can litigate through a civil court. It is a criminal provision. There is, however, a civil remedy provision under Section 3, Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (as amended), but it is a measure of very last resort when all other attempts and measures to abate harassment have failed. Any harassment has to be sustained and sufficient for the criminal courts to intervene.

Misconduct and Misfeasance in Public Office are criminal offences and fall under the scope and ambit of the Criminal Law.

OK, thanks for all of that - and taking it into account, would a County Court hear a claim for damages consequent to a criminal offence, but without necessarily making a finding that there was such an offence? Could it find that on the balance of probabilities harm or damages were caused by the actions of the FIO?

To be honest, you would be wise to seek professional legal advice as to how best to proceed in this matter.

No chance - not on - do-it-yourself is the only way round these parts. It's not up to me, anyway.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

Do I detect sarcasm?

Do you?

[bluebottle]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

Thanks, bluebottle, for your intelligent and relevant responses. I'll just mention a couple of things to make the facts clear.

Yes, civil damages would be great if they could be gotten. The evidence is strong against the FIO, and the Council have certainly been malicious in their two threats of court action. Cross examination is for criminal cases, is it not? CC is more inquisitorial, but I get your point.

Cross-examination applies in any court - civil and criminal - where evidence is being tested. You are right that County Courts are more inquisitorial than Criminal Courts and a number of Criminal Circuit Judges are beginning to take the view that Criminal Courts should become more inquisitorial, rather than the current adversarial system.

Do you know if the FOI can be linked to the attempts to bring these court proceedings that were aborted when the Council were threatened with legal action and what evidence exists to prove any link?

Up to what point did the proceedings for the Possession/Eviction Order reach before the Council backed away?

The Liability Order was stopped by the Council due to being threatened with a very large claim for damages, and the Clerk of the Court was told how it needs to go - ie the Council need to be substituted or added as Defendant. That would have been interesting: Council v Themselves.

Up to what point did the proceedings for the Liability Order reach before the Council backed away?

OK, thanks for all of that - and taking it into account, would a County Court hear a claim for damages consequent to a criminal offence, but without necessarily making a finding that there was such an offence? Could it find that on the balance of probabilities harm or damages were caused by the actions of the FIO?

Without evidence of a proven criminal offence having been committed and that liability could be attached to the defendant, a civil court would not, in my honest opinion, award civil damages. You would have to be able to prove, firstly, that an offence had, indeed, been committed and, secondly, that the defendant was responsible and that liability could be attached to them. If you can't, forget it.

No chance - not on - do-it-yourself is the only way round these parts. It's not up to me, anyway.

BB
BB

[samsmoot]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

Do you?

I do now:tinysmile_grin_t:

[samsmoot]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

'Do you know if the FOI can be linked to the attempts to bring these court proceedings that were aborted when the Council were threatened with legal action and what evidence exists to prove any link?'

A. The tenant is sure that he is a major force in the investigation, and that others act at his behest in the main. One pointer to this was the CC claim which was made. I don't know if you know about the Part 8 procedure, but it basically limits the issues to those which are not in dispute. But their legal department sought fit to include a Witness Statement from the FIO, which mainly consisted of him trying to exonerate himself, and goes on to try and belittle the Claimant with 'evidence' from the police - mostly lies, and painting a pretty picture of the FIO and the incident. They refer to him by first name - but interestingly the document prepared in response to an email from one officer to another carries no signature. The point being is that this was all irrelevant information for the part 8 Claim - the question for the court to decide was/is simply whether or not the Council had adhered to HB Regulations - which is decided on the facts and the law. Either indefinite Suspension of Benefit is allowed or is not allowed. The benefit was suspended - a fact; the law has something to say about that fact; the court determines what the law says. His Statement was superfluous to the Council's Defence, yet it was allowed to be submitted. Plus numerous letters requiring response remain unaddressed - as if they are afraid to put their foot in it, or rock the boat.

But no, no clear evidence that he is personally responsible for it all.

[samsmoot]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

'Up to what point did the proceedings for the Possession/Eviction Order reach before the Council backed away?'

Letters threatening the seeking of a court order for possession, plus notice that costs had been added, and previously an official looking 'seeking Possession' form were sent - they stopped as soon as the claim was made. Nothing actually from any court, though.

[samsmoot]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

'Up to what point did the proceedings for the Liability Order reach before the Council backed away?'

Got a phone call about five days before the Hearing - very nice man, actually. He just said they'd dropped it. The threats made to the Council were a big help in this - I guess they must have been realistic enough to trouble them.

[samsmoot]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

'Without evidence of a proven criminal offence having been committed and that liability could be attached to the defendant, a civil court would not, in my honest opinion, award civil damages. You would have to be able to prove, firstly, that an offence had, indeed, been committed and, secondly, that the defendant was responsible and that liability could be attached to them. If you can't, forget it.'

This sounds encouraging!

Also bearing in mind that 'Misconduct and Misfeasance in Public Office are criminal offences and fall under the scope and ambit of the Criminal Law', that's at least two instances of law breaking - or perhaps different descriptions of the same thing, ie the breach of the peace?

Maybe a complaint to the police should be made, just to get it on record - or maybe they will investigate - unlikely, I would have thought, but if it's the right thing to do for any reason then maybe it should be done.

So County Court may or may not be next, but if it is (post Letter Before Action, of course), then I'm wondering what to put in the Brief Details of Claim?

[bluebottle]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

'Without evidence of a proven criminal offence having been committed and that liability could be attached to the defendant, a civil court would not, in my honest opinion, award civil damages. You would have to be able to prove, firstly, that an offence had, indeed, been committed and, secondly, that the defendant was responsible and that liability could be attached to them. If you can't, forget it.'

This sounds encouraging!

Also bearing in mind that 'Misconduct and Misfeasance in Public Office are criminal offences and fall under the scope and ambit of the Criminal Law', that's at least two instances of law breaking - or perhaps different descriptions of the same thing, ie the breach of the peace?

Misconduct and Misfeasance in Public Office are criminal offences and proof in such cases is beyond all reasonable doubt, not on balance of probability, as in civil cases. Breach of the Peace is a Common Law offence and the most a court can do to a defendant is make a Binding-Over Order on a surety. Also, there are conditions attached to BoP offences in that the police will not normally arrest someone if there is no likelihood of the BoP continuing or there is no likelihood of it being repeated at some point in the future. I would be inclined to read up on the offences of Misconduct and Misfeasance in Public Office to see what points there are to prove before jumping in with both feet. Under no circumstances attempt a private prosecution on your own.

Maybe a complaint to the police should be made, just to get it on record - or maybe they will investigate - unlikely, I would have thought, but if it's the right thing to do for any reason then maybe it should be done.

That will be governed entirely by what evidence is available and whether it would stand up to cross-examination. Also, don't forget that the CPS will not take on cases, at public expense, unless there is a prospect of securing a conviction of 51% or higher.

So County Court may or may not be next, but if it is (post Letter Before Action, of course), then I'm wondering what to put in the Brief Details of Claim?

BB
BB

[samsmoot]

Re: Rogue Council Officer Commits Offence: Civil Claim or Criminal Prosecution?

'I would be inclined to read up on the offences of Misconduct and Misfeasance in Public Office to see what points there are to prove before jumping in with both feet.'

Okay - sounds like something to be getting on with. Thanks for all the input, bluebottle.