Kitchen horror

[Golconda]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help point me in the right direction as to whether I should sue and what the likely outcome might be. I ordered a kitchen on line. The brand was one that I wanted and I was about to place the order with another company when I discovered the second one who was a lot cheaper. I was in touch with the supplier for about 3 weeks, going through each detail more or less meticulously. The supplier was given the plan that the fitter had prepared which was correct. They produced computer generated diagrams of the kitchen plan and a list of the items required. These were delivered to me at the beginning of March. However, there are numerous errors and omissions in the delivery which they are refusing to acknowledge. Towards the end of the first week I threatened legal action. At that point they agreed to send a representative over to look at my kitchen and supposedly to correct things.

At the same time it gradually became clear that my fitter is a cowboy and he has finished half my kitchen and not even particularly well, and has disappeared. The rep from the supplier came over last week after a month and his sole aim was to convince me to let them finish of the kitchen for another £1000 approx. They were still not admitting there was anything missing but they said they would get it right if their fitter was able to do the work. I have reached the stage now where I realise I have to sue both the supplier and the fitter. The fitter was out of his depth and has done a dreadful job. Also I've overpaid him in relation to the volume of work he has accomplished against items on his quote. Where do I go from here? As things stand I would be £1,000 out of pocket due to the supply of wrong items and perhaps £700-£900 out of pocket because I overpaid the cowboy builder. Also it might cost me a further £1k-£2k to finish off the kitchen. Can someone please explain what I should be doing? I've made a section 75 claim against the supplier but that wont be resolved quickly.

Help appreciated.

[bluebottle]

Re: Kitchen horror

The Supply of Goods & Services Act 1982 applies in your case. Under the Act, a provider of goods and/or services must carry out the work within a reasonable period of time, to a reasonable standard of workmanship, at a reasonable cost. It is one of very few pieces of legislation that allows consequential losses to be claimed.

Could you answer the following questions, please -

1. How long did they take to deliver the base units, etc., from the time you placed and confirmed the order?
2. How long have they taken to carry out the fitting-out so far?
3. Did you and the supplier sign a contract agreeing that they would supply the units at an agreed price with the fitting at an agreed price or included in the cost of the units?
4. Who appointed the fitter, you or the supplier?
5. Did you pay up front or what is the payment arrangement?

Answering these questions should provide a clearer picture of which way this matter should proceed.

[Golconda]

Re: Kitchen horror

Thank you for your response. Perhaps I didnt clarify, the kitchen came from a supplier. The fitting (ie whatever has been done) was installed by an independent fitter. The two are unconnected.
The units arrived approximately 2 weeks after they were ordered. A proforma invoice was sent and all the items listed on the proforma were correct. However, numerous items that have been sent are not what was on the invoice or incomplete eg I wanted some panels to go beneath some wall units but they have send me 2 x 3.25cm thick shelves instead, the boiler housing unit is not the size I ordered -it is 10cm shorter. The items that are wrong come to around £1000. The units cost around £3,800 in total and I paid for it by credit card.

The fitter sent me an estimate for £2400. However after he started work he kept adding other things to it so that at the last count it was £2950. He was in my flat supposedly prepping the kitchen for 2 weeks before the kitchen arrived but none of those tasks were completed properly eg, he has tiled say 95% of the floor but hasnt grouted the tiles in that time. He put a clause in his estimate about staged payments so I paid him at the end of each week. I've prepared a spreadsheet listing all the items on the estimate and how much of it he has done and the average comes to 44%! Yet I've paid him 74.57% of £2950 (if my calculations are correct). One of the reasons he gave me for the increase of £450 was that he had listed ceramic tiles on his estimate but I had provided porcelain tiles!

[enquirer]

Re: Kitchen horror

Thank you for your response. Perhaps I didnt clarify, the kitchen came from a supplier. The fitting (ie whatever has been done) was installed by an independent fitter. The two are unconnected.

You have two contracts, one with the kitchen company, and another with the fitter.

The units arrived approximately 2 weeks after they were ordered. A proforma invoice was sent and all the items listed on the proforma were correct. However, numerous items that have been sent are not what was on the invoice or incomplete eg I wanted some panels to go beneath some wall units but they have send me 2 x 3.25cm thick shelves instead, the boiler housing unit is not the size I ordered -it is 10cm shorter. The items that are wrong come to around £1000. The units cost around £3,800 in total and I paid for it by credit card.

They have failed to supply the goods ordered. This is confirmed by their own paperwork.

Put a detailed complaint in writing and send by Recorded Delivery. Make it clear that you require the errors to be corrected within a certain time. You can also file a dispute on the credit card payment.

The fitter sent me an estimate for £2400 [....] Yet I've paid him 74.57% of £2950 (if my calculations are correct).

Do you feel that if you lean on him he will complete the job properly and do so in a reasonable time? If not, then you will have to get someone else to finish the job.

Depending on the quality of what has been done, and whether the work done matches the price so far paid, you may sue him for the difference. In any event, there could be a claim for inconvenience.

[wales01man]

Re: Kitchen horror

As an ex builder and i used to fit kitchens can i come out of retirement if i could get 3 grand to fit a kitchen sounds a good price for the fitter and the Op was mugged if gas work was involved is this fitter gas safe registered if not and he has done anything to the gas installation you need to contact Gas Safe he has broken the law,
If the Op is happy for the fitter to complete the work he must draw up a contract setting out work to be done and a time scale for completion, altough in support of the ftter if the units or fittings are not available when he is on the job he would be entitled to charge waiting time

[Golconda]

Re: Kitchen horror

Thank you. I'm beginning to realise the fitter has caused some of the problems by slightly wrong measurements and wrongly labelling one of the items he required, Eg if he had asked for a fitters panel would you expect to receive a proper 2.8mm thick veneered panel or an infill panel (filler panel)? I've received about £900 worth of wrong items, mainly panels that are wrong or missing. However the fitter has contributed to the errors. Because he asked for a fitters panel and didnt get one, he has bodged the unit above the fridge which is slightly less wide than the fridge by fitting shelves in between! It looks naff and has thrown everything else out. Again because of the lack of infill panels there is a gap at one end of the run about 1.5cm wide - I can get my hand in and the unit at the other end is attached to the wall with no panel. So this type of thing that he has done is wrong and frankly crude. Should he have done this? Obviously he wanted to stay and do some work to justify being paid. I think the fitter is out of his depth because the kitchen is more complex than say something from the sheds and I think that is his actual level. I cant envisage how he could up is game if he came back.

Where would I stand if I tried to sue the fitter? BTW Wales01Man do you have any idea what is the going rate for skimming walls and painting these days?

I'm sure the supplier will see reason because I have to have these items and if I order them elsewhere, the cost would add to my claim against them.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Kitchen horror

Where would I stand if I tried to sue the fitter?

Probably in a queue of his other, dissatisfied customers.

Getting a judgement in your favour could be the easy part - getting him to pay up may be quite another matter.

[swifty]

Re: Kitchen horror

Do you have any photo's of the kitchen and the fitters mistakes? it could help me or Wales01man get a better idea of the extent of the c#ck ups made.
I find it odd that the fitter listed a cupboard for a boiler housing, I've always measured the boiler and ordered a tall end panel/s and door then built a bespoke boiler cupboard.
My average fitting price is between £600 to £1000 which includes getting a Gas Safe fitter to connect a hob or oven, I usually get the customer to get their own electrician in as it's hard to predict how much they will charge for any given job.

I've always asked for payment on completion and the customer is happy with my work, never have I asked for payment before or during fitting. The only thing I ask a customer to pay is the kitchen units/worktops on delivery and only after it's all been checked for damage or missing items, but that's just me!

Also! can you scan the original plans for us to look at, it will help us see the size and complexity of the kitchen

[Golconda]

Re: Kitchen horror

Swifty, you cant imagine how the horror is unravelling. I had 2 fitters over today. The second one paid particular attention to all that had been done. There are no filler panels at the ends. At one end there is a gap wide enough for your hand to fit into it and it is wider at the top than the bottom. Its hard to tell if the wall isnt straight or the fitting. At the other end of the run there are 2 tall units on either side of a side by side fridge with a lift up unit linking them. The tall units are not plumbed - they are closer together at the top than at the bottom. I'm getting the impression this idiot has probably never planned a kitchen. He would only get the job right if he had detailed instructions and was spoonfed everything. The first fitter who came over said the measurements are wrong on the other side of the kitchen. the size of the room is only 2.5cm longer than all the components which means he has not left any room for movement of the washing machine or panels etc. He said he would have to cut down a couple of the units by 5cm each to make it work. This idiot so deserves to be sued to the point where bailliffs are pounding on his door.

[Golconda]

Re: Kitchen horror

Depending on the quality of what has been done, and whether the work done matches the price so far paid, you may sue him for the difference. In any event, there could be a claim for inconvenience.

I was hoping that I could. In his estimate there is a paragraph about this estimate being for all the works listed and anything not done from this list can be deducted from the costs. He probably meant for this to be agreed before the works started, however, I should be able to use this against him retrospectively dont you think?

[Golconda]

Re: Kitchen horror

As an ex builder and i used to fit kitchens can i come out of retirement if i could get 3 grand to fit a kitchen sounds a good price for the fitter and the Op was mugged if gas work was involved is this fitter gas safe registered if not and he has done anything to the gas installation you need to contact Gas Safe he has broken the law,
If the Op is happy for the fitter to complete the work he must draw up a contract setting out work to be done and a time scale for completion, altough in support of the ftter if the units or fittings are not available when he is on the job he would be entitled to charge waiting time

No - gas works werent involved.

[enquirer]

Re: Kitchen horror

I was hoping that I could. In his estimate there is a paragraph about this estimate being for all the works listed and anything not done from this list can be deducted from the costs. He probably meant for this to be agreed before the works started, however, I should be able to use this against him retrospectively dont you think?

A quote is fixed, whilst an estimate is flexible. Essentially, an estimate is an educated guess. In both cases, if the stated works are not done, then the price should fall.

It would be better to simply sue on the basis of negligence and consequent loss - he had no idea what he was doing, wrecked everything, you lost a bundle on ruined and dud units, had to get someone else to do it properly, and therefore lost even more. Then add still more for the aggravation and general mess.

[swifty]

Re: Kitchen horror

I've had a look at the photo's and there are quite a few errors that need addressing, I've commented on the photo's for you. "off to work now so I'll comment on the forum later"

[Golconda]

Re: Kitchen horror

Thanks for your comments Swifty. Those pics are just of the side which is straightforward with no appliances. Heaven knows what he would have done to the other side.

[Golconda]

Re: Kitchen horror

It would be better to simply sue on the basis of negligence and consequent loss - he had no idea what he was doing, wrecked everything, you lost a bundle on ruined and dud units, had to get someone else to do it properly, and therefore lost even more. Then add still more for the aggravation and general mess.

I've just been looking at the terms under the Goods & Services Act - would I really have to offer him the opportunity to put things right? He clearly isnt capable of better work.