council asking for bank statements for benefit

[miliitant]

my brother has just made a claim for JSA.
he was made redundant from his last job and applied for JSA with housing and council tax benefit.
the JSA has been agreed and the council has sent him a form saying to assure the claim is assessed correctly he needs to send in some documents

1/ confirmation of benefit (JSA) from the DWP
2/ please confirm how you are currentlly supporting yourself awaiting the outcome of the claim
3/ provide copy of the tenancy agreement
4/ provide one months bank statements showing all transactions inn and out the account

its 2 and 4 i have issues with

what business is it of the council on how you have been supporting yourself awaiting the outcome of the claim and

what authority do they need bank statements and how is it relevant to the claim

when you make a claim you sign a statutory declaration of entitlement

this is no more than DATA farming again

i am looking at by what authority they can ask for these documents

[bluebottle]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

I think you will find it is buried somewhere in Social Welfare Benefit Regulations, Miliitant. I had to produce one month's bank statements and proof of income when I applied for CT and Housing Benefit. JSA, like ESA (Income-Related), is a pathway benefit to other benefits.

[labman]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

Sadly I agree with BB in that he has given the same answer with which I furnished you on a similar subject a couple of nights ago - The Welfare Reform Act!

I agree it is absolutely appalling and absolutely bu99er all to do with them and should constitute a breach of the DPA. However, it would need someone with very deep pockets to challenge it, and therein lies the problem.

The sad fact is, if he doesn't supply the information, he won't get the benefit. If he questions their right to the information, his benefit will be delayed.

[miliitant]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

This is no more than data farming

all thats needed is a statutory declaration on your entitlement to benefit

innocent until proven guilty and all that

THEIR WILL BE A POINT WHEN PEOPLE WILL WAKE UP AND SAY "NO MORE"

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, Will make violent revolution inevitable. John F Kennedy 1917-1963

[labman]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

I'm not disagreeing with your principles. I'm just saying that IMO if he doesn't supply them, he won't get his benefits.

I'm trying to help someone at the moment who has been told he can get no benefits at all (they've stopped them) because he won't supply his son's earnings. His son doesn't even live with them anymore, but it hasn't stopped them stopping his benefits.

Big Brother's Watching You doesn't even come close.

[Bill-K]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

I've had my skirmishes over H&CTB in the past. I'm in Scotland, but I believe the rules are the same. H&CTB are means-tested benefits, so they are dependent upon the income of the claimant. Because of this, the claimant's income needs to be ascertained. Simply providing a sworn statutory declaration that "one is skint" is insufficient, IMHO, as the claimant then stands to be 'put to proof' of this if the declaration is challenged. This proof would then be in the form of the evidence already asked for by the council in order to make the necessary 'income-based' calculations.

I agree that it is intrusive, but without that evidence, we would probably find that just about every MP (of ALL denominations) would be claiming H&CTB on their town-houses and country retreats. The benefit system HAS to be policed - to keep it free from people such as wannabee George Osbornes, etc. However - there has to be a limit set on the amount of 'intrusion' that is considered necessary, and Mil's opinion that this may be 'data farming' has no objection from me. George Orwell might not have been any more accurate with his dates than Nostradamus was - but he foresaw the future, I believe. Perhaps like the objections to having 'Big Brother' CCTV everywhere - ANPR technology is already being abused in our retail parks and elsewhere. Data farming needs to be kept in check as well, methinks.

We need policing - but by consent. We need security, but without barbed wire. We need freedom, but without anarchy. We need 'civilization' - and the search for that Holy Grail continues, as (I believe) it always will.

EDIT: I crossed posts with Labman, and I believe he has painted the reality as it is, in all its natural colours. If we genuinely do NOT have the means, then we CANNOT afford to argue about the principles, can we ? In effect, it's...."Sure - you have the right to object and argue. Go ahead. Meanwhile, we have the right to starve you. How long can YOU survive ?" It ain't right - it's a moral siege' - but it's the way it is. We're still trying to effect a peaceful revolution, but I do fear that Mil's quote from JFK may yet be borne out.

[wales01man]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

I agree with the need to provide the documentation or statements asked for without out these it would be a free for all the case of what MPs would do highlights this they for years just put in claims for whatever they wanted those caught paid it back very few were taken to court if we tried that to the extent some of those did we would have been caught tried convicted and some would be in jail if anyone does not provide what is asked for no benefits then

[labman]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

But surely such a basic system is easily abused. I, who have no money, have three different bank accounts. Showing I&E through one is easily manipulated to show what you want, and is in no way, shape or form a means test.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

millitant,
Brighthouse want a full bank statement, showing your income, outgoings, creditors names, amounts and dates before letting you borrow £100 for a washer!
Proof of income is not enough!! We provided proof of wages child benefit and tax credits to be told, its not good enough we need to see every payment you make!

[labman]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

millitant,
Brighthouse want a full bank statement, showing your income, outgoings, creditors names, amounts and dates before letting you borrow £100 for a washer!
Proof of income is not enough!! We provided proof of wages child benefit and tax credits to be told, its not good enough we need to see every payment you make!

That's for a CCA regulated loan though Puff, not benefits entitlement.

[enaid]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

The cost of benefit fraud


The estimated level of benefit fraud has reduced from £60.9 million back in 2001. It is estimated that in 2011, £19.4 million of public money was lost through benefit fraud. This figure is made up of:

• £4.6m – Income Support
• £2.9m – Jobseeker’s Allowance
• £3.0m – State Pension Credit
• £6.1m – Incapacity Benefit
• £1.0m – Employment and Support Allowance
• £1.3m – Carer’s Allowance
• £0.5m – Instrument of Payment (cheque) fraud

It is also estimated that a further £3.2m was lost through Housing Benefit fraud.

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/the-cost-of-benefit-fraud


Think what you like of me but I for one think you should prove that you are entitled to income based benefits and if it takes a little more info than you should wish to divulge then it can only be surmised you have something to hide.

[shell]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

The cost of benefit fraud


The estimated level of benefit fraud has reduced from £60.9 million back in 2001. It is estimated that in 2011, £19.4 million of public money was lost through benefit fraud. This figure is made up of:

• £4.6m – Income Support
• £2.9m – Jobseeker’s Allowance
• £3.0m – State Pension Credit
• £6.1m – Incapacity Benefit
• £1.0m – Employment and Support Allowance
• £1.3m – Carer’s Allowance
• £0.5m – Instrument of Payment (cheque) fraud

It is also estimated that a further £3.2m was lost through Housing Benefit fraud.

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/the-cost-of-benefit-fraud


Think what you like of me but I for one think you should prove that you are entitled to income based benefits and if it takes a little more info than you should wish to divulge then it can only be surmised you have something to hide.

Di I agree with you here, I know it feels very intrusive when you are not trying to fiddle benefits and are a genuine claimant. But unfortunately there are too many who still cheat the system. My only problem is how do you police those who do cash in hand. Also those cheating the system usually are quite adept at it and as a result know all the tricks to getting away with it. It's the ones who are new to claiming that usually fall foul of the system.

Maybe they should start asking what you do for a living when leaving the country to go on holiday, there seem to be far to many round my way going on fancy holidays when nobody in the house works or has ever worked. Oh and driving top of the range 4x4's.

[labman]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

The cost of benefit fraud


The estimated level of benefit fraud has reduced from £60.9 million back in 2001. It is estimated that in 2011, £19.4 million of public money was lost through benefit fraud. This figure is made up of:

• £4.6m – Income Support
• £2.9m – Jobseeker’s Allowance
• £3.0m – State Pension Credit
• £6.1m – Incapacity Benefit
• £1.0m – Employment and Support Allowance
• £1.3m – Carer’s Allowance
• £0.5m – Instrument of Payment (cheque) fraud

It is also estimated that a further £3.2m was lost through Housing Benefit fraud.

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/the-cost-of-benefit-fraud


Think what you like of me but I for one think you should prove that you are entitled to income based benefits and if it takes a little more info than you should wish to divulge then it can only be surmised you have something to hide.

The problem is Enaid, and I've said this so many times before on here, I livein an area where benefit fraud is rife. I would estimate a figure of as high as possibly 25% of households. I've reported people over and over again and nothing, absolutely nothing has happened.

What do you do? I've just stopped reporting them I'm afraid.

I have no problem with revealing income, or undergoing any medical examination or anything for the one benefit I receive. It frustrates me that I know of people pulling in £500 per week of which £72ish is their benefit and nobody will do anything about it.

[enaid]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

Supposedly there are new powers in force and as sneaky as they appear to be I think the only way to sort out this massive problem is to be as cunning as the fraudsters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-TV-bills.html

[miliitant]

Re: council asking for bank statements for benefit

access to bank account,etc,etc
where will it end

this exemption under the data protection act for the detection of fraud is being abused at an alarming rate

the council allready has the snoopers charter called RIPA

Public bodies regulated by RIPA to conduct surveillance operations include The Post Office, the BBC, the Environment Agency, health authorities, and any local authority

THE RIPA LEGISLATION WAS CONCEIVED FOR THE PROTECTION AGAINST TERRORISM

but its broad remit encompasses interceptions and surveillance operations involving "preventing or detecting crime or preventing disorder".

WAKE UP PEOPLE BEFORE IT TWO LATE

Evil prevails when good men do nothing