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amended poc help

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  • #16
    Re: amended poc help

    You mean the facts were always known by the claimant not the defendant, don't you?

    Right so now they are directly challenging your defense, rather then stating why they are entitled to the claim?

    If so you can refuse consent on the grounds that the amended POC are a direct defense to your 9defendants) defense and not that of a reason for claim or supportive of any entitlement, legal or under contract, to issue such claim. They can not Make a claim against the defendants defense to dispute the defense as that is what a court hearing/trail is for. It (the amendment) cl;early prejudices the defendant since the amended POC are a direct response to defendants defense and not reason for issuing of the claim against the defendant with supporting documentation that supports the claim. Also section 35 of the Limitation Act 1980 prevents them from making any new claims in currently pending preceedings, and they may only admend the claim based on the same facts.

    If a matter is raised in a defence which was not pleaded in the original claim, can a claimant amend the claim after the expiry of the limitation period, relying on CPR 17.4(2)? The Court of Appeal had to consider this in Goode v Martin [2002] 1 All ER 620. Here, the claimant sought to amend the claim to rely on facts raised in the defence which had not been stated in the original claim. Although permission to amend was refused at first instance, the Court of Appeal reversed the decision and held that a narrow construction would involve an unjustified restriction on the claimant's right to access to a court under Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights (Convention). The Court of Appeal decided that for CPR 17.4(2) to comply with the Human Rights Act 1988 and Article 6 of the Convention, the rule should be interpreted as if it read:
    "the court may allow an amendment whose effect will be to add... a new cause of action but only if the claim arises out of the same set of facts as are already in issue on a claim in respect of which the party applying for permission has already claimed a remedy in the proceedings."


    However, this will only apply where a party is seeking to adopt points raised in a defence rather than refuting them. Goode was distinguished in Compagnie Noga d'Importation et D'exportation v Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd and others [2005] EWHC 225 (Comm), where the claimant sought to use points made in the defence as a means of bringing a further claim rather than simply adopting points already made in the defence. In Goode, the amendments sought were to adopt the allegations in the defence, but here the claimant was seeking to refute the defendants' allegations and introduce new facts and a new cause of action. In Goode, the cause of action remained the same and the facts relied on were those originally alleged or advanced in the defence. However, in Noga, the new claims were wholly different and distinguishable from the claims in the original claim and therefore were disallowed.
    In Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Ltd [2006] EWHC 3158, the High Court went further and held that where there are two defendants to an action and one of them pleaded certain facts by way of a defence, the claimant could adopt those facts as the basis of a new claim against the other defendant after the expiry of the limitation period.
    So if they are refuting your defence with their amendments then they are buggered.

    Oh course am assuming that that is what they are now trying to do. Now, if you can confirm if am correct or not we can then look at seeing if we can push for strike out of their claim altogether.
    Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (LB),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

    By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

    If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

    I AM SO GOING TO GET BANNED BY CEL FOR POSTING terrible humour POSTS.

    The Governess; 6th March 2012 GRRRRRR

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: amended poc help

      You`re spot on teaboy. thanks for the information and your hard work.

      If i understand correctly a claimant is not allowed to amend their poc to refute a defendants defence?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: amended poc help

        Originally posted by colin813 View Post
        You`re spot on teaboy. thanks for the information and your hard work.

        If i understand correctly a claimant is not allowed to amend their poc to refute a defendants defence?
        Thats correct mate.
        Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (LB),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

        By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

        If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

        I AM SO GOING TO GET BANNED BY CEL FOR POSTING terrible humour POSTS.

        The Governess; 6th March 2012 GRRRRRR

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: amended poc help

          hi teaboy

          thanks again

          now do i just write to the claimant saying i object to your ameneded poc due to the amended POC are a direct defense to my defense or do i need to give them more detail or do i leave that for the hearing

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: amended poc help

            if it was me i would send the claimant

            i refer to the case Arkell v. Pressdram (1971).

            in my response to your request to amend your particulars of claim and head it

            "without prejudice"

            but i have been down this road before so lets be nice

            just send them a recorded letter stating that any application for the claimant to amend his particulars of claim will be opposed

            thats all you need to put, no explanation, nothing

            after all, they brought the claim on you
            Last edited by miliitant; 30th October 2012, 14:07:PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: amended poc help

              Miliitant, i just read the case you cited lol
              Last edited by colin813; 30th October 2012, 14:04:PM. Reason: incorrect name

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: amended poc help

                thought you might like it and yes, i have sent that case to various DCA in my time, but you have to be experienced and know when to use it

                its millitant by the way, not great dane

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: amended poc help

                  Originally posted by miliitant View Post
                  if it was me i would send the claimant

                  i refer to the case Arkell v. Pressdram (1971).

                  in my response to your request to amend your particulars of claim and head it

                  "without prejudice"

                  but i have been down this road before so lets be nice

                  just send them a recorded letter stating that any application for the claimant to amend his particulars of claim will be opposed

                  thats all you need to put, no explanation, nothing

                  after all, they brought the claim on you
                  Lol oh i just love referring people to that case when they try it on with me. It certainly puts them in their place
                  Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (LB),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

                  By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

                  If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

                  I AM SO GOING TO GET BANNED BY CEL FOR POSTING terrible humour POSTS.

                  The Governess; 6th March 2012 GRRRRRR

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: amended poc help

                    im still chuckling and am very tempted to send the case cited.... but will resist the deamons

                    Teaboy you mentioned a strike out can you explain further please

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: amended poc help

                      Sent letter today to claimants solicitors confirming I refuse their request to agree the amendment and i will be opposing their amendment.

                      What next? Do I wait for their response

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: amended poc help

                        just wait

                        they may apply to the court to change the poc but i doubt it with your objections

                        the case just goes ahead as normal now

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: amended poc help

                          Yep, as militant says above, just wait see what step they take next, as the ball is in their court now. As you refused, they will now know any hope of them getting to use the easy option to admend is out the window and a judge will have to decide if their admendment can or should be allowed or not. Which you can argue against at hearing. So chances are they will not apply to a judge and case goes ahead as normal with original POC, or they withdraw

                          I wouldn't worry about strike out as such now as you probably won't need to go down that path.
                          Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (LB),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

                          By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

                          If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

                          I AM SO GOING TO GET BANNED BY CEL FOR POSTING terrible humour POSTS.

                          The Governess; 6th March 2012 GRRRRRR

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: amended poc help

                            Thanks again both

                            I never did state reasons for not allowing their amended poc

                            I just stated that I do not give my consent.

                            I didn't want to give them the heads up before the hearing.... was I correct in doing this

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: amended poc help

                              yes, tell them nothing

                              they issued the claim, not you

                              why do you want to make it easier for them to screew you over

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: amended poc help

                                Indeed thank you...

                                Have a nice weekend

                                Comment

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