Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

[blue1]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

It seems many cases are listed and the prosecutor thins them out pre hearing - they had my statement and that of the shops' that had Militant's reply? how would I respond to the issues they raised?

[miliitant]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

i would just waite now

DVLA will be in touch, prob asking you to pay their invoice again to drop the case

i would say sod off

but thats me

[stuartclarke]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

I received the same letter in the post today.

I sold a van to a friend of mine roughly 5 1/2 month ago. he has received his logbook through the post.

Can anyone help me out on what I should expect. I have spoken to the Nottingham enforcement center, they advised that I write to them and that I would receive a reply within 10 working days.I was thinking of sending Miliitant letter in but unsure of the consequences if they still proceed. my day in court is for the 22nd of this month.

[scooby0606]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

Blue1 any update on your case since the adjournment ? Was another date set ?

My Son has recieved one of these requisitions and I know he sent it back as I took him to the post office. I drafted a letter similar to millitants and they questioned the text as their form says 'deliver' and not 'serve give or send' and as it said deliver it was his responsibility to ensure it had been delivered by phoneing them , at this point I pointed out the oxford english dictionary (permissible in court) includes the word send in its definition of deliver and that I hadnt seen a statute requiring him to ring them. They still wouldnt accept this and said something along the lines of it is necessary for the previous owner to check or they wouldnt be able to keep there data up to date. Our final reply was a scale of charges we would be claiming as costs ! (cheeky but fed up of them harrasing an 18 year old when he hasnt done anything wrong !)

I am more than happy to go to court with my son as a witness to state on oath it was 'sent' as per statute So we are going to do the not guilty thing and I am thinking to tick the box requiring their witness to attend (the person completing the form) .... any thoughts on this, I have heard of them phoning you to ask why you want them to come and wont just accept there statment being read

[bluebottle]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

Blue1 any update on your case since the adjournment ? Was another date set ?

My Son has recieved one of these requisitions and I know he sent it back as I took him to the post office. I drafted a letter similar to millitants and they questioned the text as their form says 'deliver' and not 'serve give or send' adn at it said deliver it was his responsibility to ensure it had been delivered by phoneing them , at this point I pointed out the oxford english dictionary (permissible in court) includes the word send in its definition of deliver and that I hadnt seen a statute requiring him to ring them. They still wouldnt accept this and said something along the lines of it is necessary for the previous owner to check or they wouldnt be able to keep there data up to date. Our final reply was a scale of charges we would be claiming as costs ! (cheeky but fed up of them harrasing an 18 year old when he hasnt done anything wrong !)

I am more than happy to go to court with my son as a witness to state on oath it was 'sent' as per statute So we are going to do the not guilty thing and I am thinking to tick the box requiring their witness to attend (the person completing the form) .... any thoughts on this, I have heard of them phoning you to ask why you want them to come and wont just accept there statment being read

You can have the magistrates court where the hearing will take place issue a Witness Summons, ordering a DVLA muppet to appear before the court. They don't like it because the statements are pre-formatted and, basically, pro-forma documents and they would have to truthfully answer all questions put to them by the defence and the court.

In my experience, a witness who is reluctant to give evidence in court has a lot of questions to answer and it does bring into question the reliability of their testimony.

If DVLA ring up asking why you want their witness to attend the hearing, just tell them that you are prepared to ask the magistrates to issue a Witness Summons.

[scooby0606]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

Thanks for the reply, box ticked and form posted

[maxywell-92]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

Hi came across this though a search engine, im having the same problem but more severe as i had moved address and all mail had gone to my dads. I only discovered the fines, warning and court due date yesterday which i have now missed i told the dvla when i moved and even have my new address on my driving licence. Why would they send the post to my old address? how can i resolve this as i think it has past the option of sending the requisition back with a letter. any help or advice would be appreciated Max

[Alien50]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

I have responded to the "No ASN required" letter with its "requisition" to appear in court regarding the DVLAs alleged non-receipt of notifcation of change of ownership.
I used Miliitants template letter, and called the court to postpone the date, which they did.

I have had a 2 page reply, which I precis below;

" the charge is 'failing to deliver notification of a change of keeper' - it is not a defence to claim that the document was sent. The wording of the legislation requires the disposing keeper to DELIVER (their bold) notification places a heavier emphasis on you as the disposing keeper than simply relying on posting the documents and believing that this is an end to your responsibilities"

So, how tenable is the DVLAs assertion that we must "deliver" - presumable by hand if we cannot rely on the Royal Mail?

My position is that if the DVLA require a superior delivery method to Royal Mail, they should specify it.

Has anyone else had this response from the DVLA, and is their a "killer response " to it?

thanks in anticipation,

Bill

[enquirer]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

" the charge is 'failing to deliver notification of a change of keeper' - it is not a defence to claim that the document was sent. The wording of the legislation requires the disposing keeper to DELIVER (their bold) notification places a heavier emphasis on you as the disposing keeper than simply relying on posting the documents and believing that this is an end to your responsibilities"

Firstly ...

Interpretation Act 1978 s.7 References to service by post."Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post".

'Deliver' must surely be the same as 'serve', give' etcetera. Notice the requirement for proof to the contrary.

Secondly ...

DVLA v Peck Horsham County Court (Claim No. 9BR0829). The judge found for D, stating that the DVLA has no statutory power requiring anyone to contact them in the event that D does not receive acknowledgement of receipt for documents sent to them.

DVLA v Collins, Clerkenwell Magistrates Court Oct 2009.
DVLA v O’Sullivan, Staines County Court Oct 2009.
DVLA v Kennedy appealed to Chelmsford Crown Court 09/09/2011.

As they attempt to distinguish between 'deliver' and 'post', I wonder what their response would be if you asked them to explain exactly how this mysterious 'delivery' is to be effected, if mere posting has no validity.

[Disilusioned]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

Hi,
I have just received a notice from DVLA saying i never sent my V5 document when i sold the car on the 17/04/2014 as the letter quotes this is the date i sold it...In my defence i am sure i sent this form off the day after the evening i sold it...Now heres my problem...I suffer from a chronic and debilitating illness and struggle to just get through the day as it is let alone trying to find the strengh and will to fight my case..Due to my disability/illness this also affects my short and long term memory which part of this condition...also standing up in court i would struggle severley to even think straight let alone trying to communicate as its like hitting a brick wall and i would struggle to put sentences together...My condition is severe and can barely remember what i did yesterday let alone what i did 5 months ago.In other words because im sick and disabled im also down as vulnerable..They say if i pay now i can pay an out of court settlement of £35 by the 18/9/14 or pay £55 if paid after this date to stop them taking court action..For reasons detailed above i can not work and live off state benefits which is the new E.S.A but im in the support group so am not required to seek work on medical grounds...I have no way to pay this sum as im also paying the dreaded bedroom tax to keep my roof over my head which alone means i struggle with living expenses...Can any one give me advice on this as im desperate to resolve this and any action by DVLA if i dont or cant pay this will cause me undue stress and suffering...Stress and worry causes my condition to affect me more severley..It causes the wide spread pain i have already through out my body to get worse...I received this notice yesterday and the stress is hitting me hard...Should i try to find the money to pay is my dilema..I need serious help as i cannot fight this in my current condition..any help or advice would be helpfull...Thank you in advance for any replies..

[Disilusioned]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

I have noticed on this payment request. nobody at DVLA have even bothered to put a signature on this letter...It says yours sincerley and big space for where a signature should go then next line about 3 inches down just says Enforcement officer on behalf of the secratatry of state for transport.doesnt say who this enforcement officer is thats requiring payment..Is a signature on it not legaly required for them to enforce the said notice??..

[Galahad]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

Pay nothing.

Are you sure you sent it? Lets clarify, you're 100% confident you sent it, and that as they say is that.

DVLA like to pretend that there is a clause that requires YOU to check to make sure they have received the logbook........ Psssst..... there is no such clause.

As far as the law is concerned, so long as you put in the correctly filled logbook in the correctly addressed envelope with the required postage to cover its postal costs and inserted said envelope into a Royal Mail Postbox....... THAT... is all that you are required to do.

So, don't acknowledge the fine, but do write a sternly worded letter back with their reference number etc on it along the lines of:



Dear Sir/Madam,

thank you for your letter dated X with reference to vehicle XXXXXX and YOUR claim of 'Failure to notify'.

I must draw your attention to the following, which you appear to be willfully ignorant of:

"Section 7 Interpretations act 1978 (IA78)

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expression" give " or " send " or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, "

I have complied with all aspects of Section 7 Interpretations Act 1978, and as such, there is no law that requires me to make any kind of 'follow up' inquiries with DVLA as to the progress of the administration of the V5/logbook that was sent into your care, and as you cannot prove contrary, I now consider this matter CLOSED.

I require expedient confirmation of such by return post.

Yours Sincerely

Mr.Blah Blah

[Disilusioned]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

Hi Galahad...Yes i honestly did post it as i knew the consequencies if i didnt..I did not want to be responsible for any body elses driving offences ie speeding tickets and parking penalties.. , I have never had this problem before and to be honest once i sent it it was all forgotten about and thought that was the end of that..Little did i know over 5 months down the line they would be claiming i have commited an alledged offence of not notifying them when i did every thing i was required to do..I now have learned a valuable lesson never to send any legal documents through the normal first class post.I will phone them tomorrow if i can find a number for the right department to see if this can be settled amicably and obviously i will record the phone call as no doubt they will too..Surely the burden of proof in any convictions is that they have to have with out any shadow of doubt proof that i did not send the V5C document off..At the end of the day its their word against mine..At this stage is it called mittigating circumstances?? where neither can prove either way in reality..Im not even sure if thats the correct process, as i say little things jump to mind and because of my health i do struggle considerably with grasping anything any more and this has got me stumped because i dont have the ability any more to stand up for my self..I struggle to communicate in person to person situations..Some one can ask me a question and i go to answer but by then i havent a clue what the person said to me..Its really embarrasing so i tend to stay at home 24/7 and live as a social out cast and avoid people like the plague.I also feel safer in my home inviroment.I cant read and understand fully when letters are sent to me i have to read them and read them over and over again as whats in the letters just does not get through...I can start reading a sentence but repeatibly have to keep going back half way through the sentence and start again..Its a night mare it really is..hopefully i can get this resolved and settled with out to mutch stress and hassle :tinysmile_cry_t:.Im not loking forward to it but what else am i to do??...

Pay nothing.

Are you sure you sent it? Lets clarify, you're 100% confident you sent it, and that as they say is that.

DVLA like to pretend that there is a clause that requires YOU to check to make sure they have received the logbook........ Psssst..... there is no such clause.

As far as the law is concerned, so long as you put in the correctly filled logbook in the correctly addressed envelope with the required postage to cover its postal costs and inserted said envelope into a Royal Mail Postbox....... THAT... is all that you are required to do.

So, don't acknowledge the fine, but do write a sternly worded letter back with their reference number etc on it along the lines of..



Dear Sir/Madam,

thank you for your letter dated X with reference to vehicle XXXXXX and YOUR claim of 'Failure to notify'.

I must draw your attention to the following, which you appear to be willfully ignorant of:

"Section 7 Interpretations act 1978 (IA78)

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expression" give " or " send " or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, "

I have complied with all aspects of Section 7 Interpretations Act 1978, and as such, there is no law that requires me to make any kind of 'follow up' inquiries with DVLA as to the progress of the administration of the V5/logbook that was sent into your care, and as you cannot prove contrary, I now consider this matter CLOSED.

I require expedient confirmation of such by return post.

Yours Sincerely

Mr.Blah Blah

[Galahad]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

Hi Galahad...Yes i honestly did post it as i knew the consequencies if i didnt..I did not want to be responsible for any body elses driving offences ie speeding tickets and parking penalties.. , I have never had this problem before and to be honest once i sent it it was all forgotten about and thought that was the end of that..Little did i know over 5 months down the line they would be claiming i have commited an alledged offence of not notifying them when i did every thing i was required to do..I now have learned a valuable lesson never to send any legal documents through the normal first class post.I will phone them tomorrow if i can find a number for the right department to see if this can be settled amicably and obviously i will record the phone call as no doubt they will too..Surely the burden of proof in any convictions is that they have to have with out any shadow of doubt proof that i did not send the V5C document off..At the end of the day its their word against mine..At this stage is it called mittigating circumstances?? where neither can prove either way in reality..Im not even sure if thats the correct process, as i say little things jump to mind and because of my health i do struggle considerably with grasping anything any more and this has got me stumped because i dont have the ability any more to stand up for my self..I struggle to communicate in person to person situations..Some one can ask me a question and i go to answer but by then i havent a clue what the person said to me..Its really embarrasing so i tend to stay at home 24/7 and live as a social out cast and avoid people like the plague.I also feel safer in my home inviroment.I cant read and understand fully when letters are sent to me i have to read them and read them over and over again as whats in the letters just does not get through...I can start reading a sentence but repeatibly have to keep going back half way through the sentence and start again..Its a night mare it really is..hopefully i can get this resolved and settled with out to mutch stress and hassle :tinysmile_cry_t:.Im not loking forward to it but what else am i to do??...

Did you read what I wrote? I don't recall mentioning phoning them which would be an utter massive waste of time.

So, go back and read my post, copy the bold part, and send them that sternly worded letter. You're a Tiger, you're not going to take any crap from the likes of the DVLA who are oven ready chickens in comparison

Do you get the analogy? You're a hungry Tiger, and you're going to feast on the corpses of the DVLA. They don't have anything like as much power as they think.

So, copy and paste my sternly bolded letter, making sure you edit the parts that are pertinent to you, don't waste your time calling them because it will achieve nothing.

Remember, you've done nothing wrong, so straight back, chin up, have a bit of swagger about yourself, and take control

You'll feel much better and the stress will just slip away Yes you might have medical problems, but for the love of Cheryl Cole, don't tell them that, or they'll see you as a pushover that can be steamrollered over.

Seize the day, own the moment, write with a stern lick, they don't need to know any different.

[Slumpy]

Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

Hi good people,

I've just had one of these 'Requisition' letters through my door. It seems the DVLA are hell bent on ruining me. I lost a car after having it seized for non insurance due to a question over who owned the car. Mainly because DVLA said they had not had the yellow slip. Which I proved I handed it over at the Leeds DVLA office and so the case was dropped but I never got the car back.

Then recently and unrelated I had a bailiff letter saying I owed £750 which turned out to be for two vans. One being failure to notify the other non insured period.
I have moved house so no letters got to me. I have done two Statutory Declarations which made no difference. One summons came requested I go back to Huddersfield court for the previous offence which had been dropped in court over a year ago( the car that was lost). Then this new requisition for failure to notify. I have no idea what is happening with the other.

It seems the court is inept to what they are supposed to do as well.

My questions are:
1. If you have done the Stat Decs don't they have to give you a chance to pay original fine?
2. Do militants letter drafts still hold water or have they put new laws in?
3.How can I make a claim against the DVLA for all the time off work, stress, running around etc that they have put me through?
4. Why have I only seen one of the original charges and one mistaken one?

I have sent the log book off for the van I sold. I posted it royal mail 1st class. The new owner said he had not received the log book. I wrote a letter asking if they had received the V5 I got no response. I then got the new owner to write to them and apply for new log book and gave him the money for it.
The other van I wrote to them advising them it was sorn. I moved after these letters were sent and obviously heard nothing however I changed my current vehicles address and my driving license when I moved and that came back ok. I don't understand how if they knew my address why they didn't send correspondence to my new address after all is that not the point in having your address on your driving license?

I am so fed up with the DVLA I could scream I'm being put through the mill because I can't send something recorded delivery! They can't find it or say they haven't received it so therefore I'm guilty not them. Is this a guilty until proved innocent system. It seems like I have no rights and they are always right. I went completly ape crazy during making the statuary declarations which the magistrates actually agreed with me.

Oh and just on a lighter note on the first case where I lost the car, the magistrates final comment was "Mr S you can sleep well tonight assured that common sense has prevailed!" To which I replied that's excellent shame I can't get my bloody car back! (Which was sold before the court hearing was made!)