Help with TMobile please.

[RobertDuncan25]

Hi all,

I have recently found out tmobile registered a default against my name claiming I owe them £266 for a pay monthly mobile broadband service which I cancelled. Firstly they say I signed up to a tmobile pay monthly contract but I was under the impression I had signed up for a pay and go Contract I therefore cancelled this contract and sent the broadband back to tmobile they are saying they did not get it and I signed up for pay monthly but I had not I have Mental Health and Learning disabilities which include Dyslexia Dyspraxia ADHD OCD and Aspergers syndrome and this is just the ones I can remember I was diagnosed with a lot more problems. I was at the time under the impression I was on a pay and go contract when I found out I was not I wrote to them cancelling the contract but they say they never got it. They are now demanding I pay them £266 at the time tmobile was made aware I was undemployed and still am due to my mental health problems. To me there charge of £266 seems like they are trying to bill me for the full line rental even though t mobile cancelled the contract becuase I refused to pay them until the dispute was settled. They cancelled the service and I did not recieve the full service as a result I do not believe I should be held responsible for a charge of £266 I tried to get them to remove there default but they wont.


I have been advised by a friend to complain to them undergrounds of the UTTCR 1999 how would I go about this and is there anyother arguments I could use as they seem unwilling to budge has anyone ever tested this in a court of law. I was so confused by them I had not got a clue what I signed up for and I don't ever remember getting a copy of the terms and conditions either.

What do I do?

This is having a serious impact on my mental health as it is making me badly depressed.

Robert

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

Hello Robert and welcome to Legal Beagles.

T-Mobile are a particularly nasty lot who don't like it when people stand up to them, as you have found out.

The first thing you need to do is ask them to send a true copy of the agreement they allege you signed. Use a script font on your computer to sign the letter you send, Do not sign it with your normal signature. This is to prevent forgery.

Obviously, I do not know to what extent your learning difficulties affect you, but I am wondering if the agreement is actually enforceable, given the learning difficulties you have and whether you would have been able to read and understand the terms and conditions.

Speaking to your local Trading Standards Department is one avenue you can go down and if there is a local disabled advocacy service where you live, contact them and see if they can help you. Your local CAB may be able to put you in touch with one or know of one such service.

If you need any further help, come back onto this thread.

BB

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

hey there

When you took out the broadband package, was it mobile or home broadband? Did you take it out from Tmobile themselves or did you go via a 3rd party? (carphone warehouse etc)
Also how long did you have the broadband before you realised it was a contract?

I know its a lot of questions hun but I need to know before I can help you fully.

If you have sent in a notice of disconnection in writting,did can you remember if when you called up they gave you a disconnection date. and if they are saying they have not received it, it may be worth you sending in a SAR request, which will cost £10, if you decide to do this, I can translate the terms on it, but you need to be looking for 30 notice placed, updated FDTs or Work Diary set.

Speak with Ofcom about this as well, particularly as you do have the conditions you have, an advisor should have explained everything to you clearly before processing your order. Do you have a friend/family member who you can pass over to TMobile on your behalf, they are obliged to speak with a 3rd party on request provided you pass security. So you can literally say, I am putting my mum on, please explain to her, if you have any problems or they try to be clever.. and believe me they hate it!

They are chasing you for what is known as Term Fees (the whole times rental) but if you made your request for disconnection within 14 days this does not apply anyway!

Have they checked to see if you have used the package at all? and have they checked with their returns department that the returns dept have not got the router?

all little things Tmobile (amongst others) are very good at forgetting!

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

Sounds like T-Mobile may be in breach of UTCCR 1999, Puff. And, yes, I've found they don't like it when they realise you know more than them. I had one of their Customer Service muppets trying to BS me about the law, coming out with the weak excuse he wasn't legally-trained and I'd have to speak to their Legal Department. He wasn't so keen to continue the conversation when I pointed out that it didn't make the slightest bit of difference as he should know or ought to know the basics of Consumer Protection Law as part of his job.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

Yeh as a rule C/S agents for a mobile phone company is no more legally trained than my kids (including myself), however with my experience in the disconnection department I know the proceedures.
The first thing any company should do on being told an item has been returned is to check on the returns site and ensure the item is not sitting in the depot.

[RobertDuncan25]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

Further to your replies.
According to tmobile they have not recieved my termination letter or the broadband this was sent by post with the item back to them unfortunately I didn't think to send it by registered post. According to them the £266 is an early termination fee not for line rental. They say as they did not get my letter they cancelled it after not receiving payment from my account. I was furious with them when they told me it is a termination charge and that this was to cover the cost to them for me terminating early. I have now asked them to send me a true copy of the consumer credit agreement and terms and conditions. A friend contacted them on my behalf and they still refused to reduce the charges. I think the £266 is to cover the cost of the contract rental period but I am livid as I am not getting the service for that period therefore it is cross subsidising their profit margin.

I have argued with the credit refrence agencies that they should remove this as I am now disputing this with tmobile they wont do that. I have had customer service patronising gits tell me the contract is legal but I know it is no where near it. I decided I did not want the broadband after seven days as I noticed they had not sent me a card to pay and go it was sent back but as I didn't send it registered post they say they dont accept the contract was cancelled by me but by them after three months of attempting to get a payment from my account. At the time I applied it was directly from tmobile and they where aware I was unemployed at the time and I was under the impression that they were sending me a pay and go mobile broadband. I argued I couldn';t understand the contract based on the fact I hadn't a clue what I was getting from t mobile nor did I get a copy of the terms and conditions with the mobilebroadband.

I think my best bet is not to argue on grounds of mental health but on utccr as this is in fact clearly a breach of utccr as it is them trying to claim back their profit. They did not loose anything other than profit. I think after looking over what the Utccr says with my local MSP that if I was to argue this in court I would probably win based on the fact tmobile havent really lost anything from it and the charges seem in excess. Although I will also use the argument of the confusion caused by t mobile over what I was getting if necessary.

T mobile certainly think they can get away with being nasty but I hate to tell them this but they have met their match in me I will not role over and I will fight like cat and dog if I have to in order to get justice. I will use the utccr regs and I am digging my heals in on this issue as I know it is unfair and I am not going to stand for it. to expect someone on benefits to pay £266 is ludicrous. I have tried to get work for five years now and been unsucessful in getting anything other than temp work. i am trying to sort out my financial affairs before the governments cuts take affect so I am in a better shape to weather the storm so to speak. I will be sending tmobiles complaints department a reather large and long winded letter telling them what I think of their termination fees.

I will of course contact ofcoms advisors to see what they say and will post a copy of the terms and conditions as soon as I get them to get your opinions frankly I think tmobile are just as bad as the banks who kept telling me there charges where legal and that the supreme court said they could not be tested for fairness at all when I argued with them they soon backed down although they would not admit they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on I know that that was the real reason I got the charges refunded and not the so called reason of my mental health. I stuck it out for years arguing with the banks and I will stick it out with tmobile arguing with them and hounding them till they admit defeat. Lets face it companies like tmobile are just bullies who think they can push us around time we bit back and showed them who is the real boss I will do this and I will make sure they know I am not just going to role over and do as they command.

I am sure with your help I will be able to get tmobile to change their mind.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

Well said hun!

If you are in a financial position to spare £10, a SAR request should show if they processed anything on the account, however reading the terms and conditions..
4 ways to let us know you're returning something

To get a refund, you need to let us know in writing that you're returning your purchase within 7 working days.You can do this by:

• sending a written notice of cancellation to us at T-Mobile, 4 Main Street, Greenock PA15 1AE
• Emailing us at distribution.helpdesk@t-mobile.co.uk
• Sending us a fax on 01475 884 651 within 7 working days of the day you received your equipment, accessories and/or SIM card
• Calling us - dial 08454 122 888 to speak to the nice people at our Customer Services department

When we receive your notification, we'll let you know where to send the equipment- you must return it to us at the address we give you within 7 days of hearing from us. We may charge you for our costs of recovering the items from you if you don't return them to us straight away.

I would assume a letter of cancellation is not required.

I will make a few calls and see if i cant get to the bottom of the whole writing in thing.
Did they attempt to track the location of the equiptment at all?

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

A friend of mine had a similar case like this with Virgin Media trying to charge termination fees when Virgin Media had cancelled the contract. Totally forbidden under UTCCR 1999. T-Mobile need a sharp reminder of UTCCR 1999. In my friends case, after threatening Virgin Media's senior management and the arrogant sods at Moorcroft with legal action, Virgin Media backed down. Moorcroft tried to come the "We accept instructions from clients in good faith" crap. It seems to really wind Moorcroft up when they realise you know more about the law than they do, you aren't swallowing their lies and won't be bowed by their bullying. A thoroughly nasty lot.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

Robert,


If you have, or have a family member with a tmobile number, you need to ring 122 from it and ask to speak to the specialist Disability Team. I have spoken with a representative (oooh the power.. the power of being owed favour by a mobile phone company)and she was absolutley lovely. If you have a friend/family member who will sit with you, if it gets too much simply ask to pass the call to your family member.

[RobertDuncan25]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

Update for yous all Spoke to ofcom they agree 266 pounds is a bit steep they have forwarded my complaint to tmobile and I sent a letter of dispute to customer service stating I am disputing it under reg 5.1 threatening court action so we will see what rubish they come back with. I also stated my mental health problems and that I found it difficult to understand what I had signed up for I also told them as I wasnt working their charge would cause a great deal of financial difficulty and on top of this that it was making my mental health worse and told them that if they dont agree to write it off and remove the default I would sue them and further to this make a complaint against them with the ombudsman as well as the oft and further to that i would make the media aware of the problem and that tmboile was irresponsibly giving people who are unemployed mobile broad band monthly contracts. I made the point the oft would then look at them for breaches of the utccr and irresponsible lending. think that will be enough to get them to admit defeat?

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

Have you sent the letter yet?

May I suggest (if you still have a copy of your broadband details) that you add in

On x/x/20XX, I returned equiptment (Order Number abcd1234), as per instructions, despite asking several times, I have not received a satisfactory answer to the question, if i returned it, where is it?
Also, could you confirm to me that on my explanation of return, was my usage tracked to see if I had indeed used said equiptment after the above date?


Before you sign it (killer line here)

I would rate my overall experience with TMobile as Very Unsatisfied in every aspect.

[RobertDuncan25]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

Got a reply back after a few hours of ofcom sending them complaint this time legal department according to them they did not get it back however they cancelled the contract their selves. they tried to tell me the £266 is right and that it was for a 24 month contract I fired an email back to them stating the following.

I refer to my previous correspondence to your customer services department in which you have stated your contract allows you to charge me a termination fee of £266.

Specifically you seek to rely on a term or condition in your so called contract with me that states you may charge a termination fee where the line ends before the contract period.

I consider that this term is unfair pursuant to The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 for the following reason(s): Firstly I spoke with one of your team from the billing department at the time and tried to cancel this contact as I was under the impression I had applied for a pay and go mobile broadband account which was correct with the application I filled in I was subsequently given a pay monthly contract I followed your agents advice and sent a notice of termination which you state you never received within the seven days but I know it was sent out and arrived within the seven day period. Further to this your company attempted to take money out of my bank account which I refused to allow them to do as a result despite my cancelling my contract with you and your refusa to accept the fact I had sent out the letter and was refusing to pay as I had not signed up to or asked for a pay monthly contract you decided Tmobile then terminated the contract and charged a cancellation fee which takes in to account line rental for a contract I do not receive. I have learning disabilities including Aspergers Syndrome and Dyslexia as well as dyspraxia and ADHD and OCD further to this due to my learning disabilities I had difficulty understanding the application process and Believed I was singing up to a pay and go contract. I believe your termination fee breaches the utccr codes under various parts but mainly .1 which states any individual term or condition which forms part of a standard set of terms and conditions can be tested for fairness under regulation 5.1 where it causes a significant imbalance between creditor and debtor. This term allows you to charge me 266 pounds for a service which I do not get because the contract was cancelled and ofcom guidelines clearly state where a termination charge is ore than one months line rental it shall be deemed unfair by them and in contravention to the utccr. Further to this due to my learning problems I found it impossible to understand the contract I was getting into with your company. My solicitor has infored me legally this whole contract can be nullified in a court of law due to y inherent in ability to understand what I was signing up to. Further to this the recent oft case against the banks saw the uk supreme court state that any contract that attempts to charge the consumer to cross subsidise profit shall be deemed un fair in a court of law. You are clearly charging this fee to sure up your profit. Further to this as you state yous cancelled the contract this further adds to the unfairness as this means your actions means I a expected to pay a cancellation fee which I should not have needed to pay in the first place.

Further to this as at the time of applying for the broadband I was unemployed I would also submit it was irresponsible of your company to grant a contract in the first place as you were made well aware I was unemployed. Of com stats clearly any charge that is more than one months worth of line rental will in their view be deemed on fair. Further to this it would cause considerable financial hardship for me asd I only get £115 a week of which £100 is taken up by rent phone and electricity as well as gas tv licence council tax and care costs. This leaves me with only £15.00 a week for food. Under the unfair terms and conditions in consumer contract regulations any charge of £266 would be considered unfair especially as the person is on benefit and has debt of £12000 which they are unable to pay at this moment but further to this the utccr states a person must know what they are singing up to at the time of signing a contract I had no idea I wasn’t signing up to pay and go as the website application form stated you are singing up for a pay and go mobile broadband service. It was only after the fact that I was aware of the fact that I was given a pay monthly contract. On top of this due to my mental health problems this has caused me to become even more severly depressed than normal and at one point even suicidal.

I would be greatful to you if you would write off this termination charge as a gesture of good will as I believe it breaches the unfair terms and conditions in consuer contract regulations a does my Solicitor and OFCOM who issue clear guidance that anything over a one month line rental termination charge would be unfair and excessive,. My mental health means I did not know at the time what I was getting in to and having seeked legal advice my sokicitor is prepared to take court action against t mobile if necessary I should also make you aware that we have lodged a complaint with OFCOM and plan to lodge a complaint with the oft if we do not get a satisfactory conclusion to this further to that we are prepared to sue you for breaching the utccr regs. I am sure you do not want a lengthy drawn out court battle anymore than I do and would therefore appreciate the need to settle this matter urgently. I would be greatful to you if you would write this debt off as a matter of urgency and gesture of good will and I would be even more greatful to you if you would have the default you have registered with the three credit reference agencies against my file removed as a gesture of good will. I now have to have someone deal with my financial affairs due to the difficulty in understand the ters and conditions and have seeked legal advice and would therefore be grate ful to you if you would consider writing this debt.

If you do not we will be forced to take court action and also to make the Oft aware of this problem as well as the media. I found your terms impossible to understand and could not understand what I had signed up for further to this I was not sent a copy of any credit agreement or terms and conditions at the time. If you do not write this debt off I will be forced to sue tmobile under the utccr regs and make the oft aware of tmobiles irresponsible lending. I am sure you wish just as I do to be able to coe to a speedy conclusion to this and this is why I would be grateful to you if you would agree to write off this debt as a special case and remove the default registered against my nae with the three main credit reference agencies..

For the reasons stated above this term is not enforceable against me.

If I do not hear from you within the next 48 hours I will instruct my solicitor to begin preparing the court papers to lodge at Stranraer sheriffs court to begin formal legal proceedings against t mobile.

I look forward to hearing from you in the next few days please reply by email..

So waiting to hear what they say next. But I warn them it better be good as I am in the mood for fighting them after forcing the banks to write off their excessive bank charges. I feel like a Rottweiler today when it comes to these bully boy rob you any day cowboy companies. I aint going down unless it is fighting all the way to the end.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

You right a mean letter. Well done!

[RobertDuncan25]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

T mobile dont seem to be buying it thoguh they write back as below what should my reply be.

Thank you for your further email. Claire is currently out of the office, however, I am happy to reply on her behalf.

Unfortunately, as we are not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, T-Mobile is not obliged to send default notices to our customers. I would like to refer you Section 4 of our Terms and Conditions:

4.10. We may use credit reference agencies to help Us make credit decisions or for fraud protection. You agree that We may register information about You and the conduct of Your Account with any credit reference agency. For the purpose of fraud prevention and credit management, information about You and the conduct of Your Account may be disclosed to financial institutions and other phone companies. Such information may also be passed to debt collection agencies for debt collection purposes.

I have arranged for a copy of our Terms and Conditions to be sent to you.

I can also confirm that with the equipment we sent to you we also sent you a copy of our Terms and Conditions a proof of purchase and information regarding returning the equipment under DSR (distant selling regulations).

I can also advise that we have not received the equipment back, therefore the balance on the account and the default we have place on your credit file is correct.

You have advised your solicitor is preparing papers to serve on us, rest assured we will answer any enquiries we receive.

Thank you again for your email. I trust this clarifies our position.




Complaint Investegations

[RobertDuncan25]

Re: Help with TMobile please.

T mobile have been very bad I just found out through tmobiles website that they taken a £10 payment from my account for the month of december which does not match the £12.77 they are claiming was the regular monthly payment on top of that they stated there was vat owing on the early termination charge of 20% vat yet on their other email to me they say the account is exempt from vat isn't that strange. Why would they submit for a monthly payment in december of £10 if it was supposed to be a monthly payment of £12.77 I smell a rat and something fishy with t mobiles response. Plus they say they discounted it by 4% for the ETC the more you dig the more wholes t mobile dig themselves in to.