one Act, 3 offences?

[lisalegal]

If I commit an offence under a specific Act and by committing that offence A I then automatically commit offence B and C under the same Act (but different sections of that Act) am I likely to be charged with 3 offences OR is it only the first offence you are charged with or only commit the first one?

thanks, Lisa

[bluebottle]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

Hello, hello, hello LisaLegal. I am a retired policeman and could probably answer your question. It depends on the circumstances of the original offence. If you could provide more details, I'll try my best to give you an honest answer.

[lisalegal]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

Hello, hello, hello LisaLegal. I am a retired policeman and could probably answer your question. It depends on the circumstances of the original offence. If you could provide more details, I'll try my best to give you an honest answer.

warm night, warm night (well, it isn't really).

Ok, I take a bottle of whisky through the turnstiles into a football match in my rucksack. (offence A). I then have that bottle in my possession whilst watching the match from a position with a direct view of the event (offence B), the bottle can be used as a missile (offence C) plus if I am drunk after drinking it (offence D).

So, 4 offences all under the same Act. I believe and accept I have committed 4 offences under the same Act but have I? Do you commit one offence, i.e. the first one or do you commit 4 offences BUT might only be charged with the first one as the subsequent ones are unavoidable as a result of committing the first one?

I hope that is clear and thank you for looking at this for me.

Lisa

[bluebottle]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

Hi Lisa Legal,

Thanks for your post. Do you know which Act the police are quoting and which jurisdiction are you in, England and Wales or Scotland?

Once I have this information, I can look into the matter for you in more detail.

Bluebottle

[lisalegal]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

English jurisdiction, Alcohol Act etc 1985

[bluebottle]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

Many thanks, Lisa. I'll look into this and get back to you.

Bluebottle

[bluebottle]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

Hi again Lisa,

The piece of legislation that applies is the Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol, etc.) Act 1985.

The four offences you refer to are all under Section 2 of the Act and are all summary offences, which means they can only be tried by a Magistrates' Court and carry a fine only in each case.

Section 2(1)(a) refers to having the bottle of whiskey in a part of the football ground where you had a direct view of the match.

Section 2(1)(b) refers to having the bottle of whiskey in your rucksack when you were entering the football ground.

Section 2(2) refers to you being drunk inside the football ground.

Section 2(3)(a)(i) refers to the whiskey bottle being capable of being used as a missile.

You don't say when the police apprehended you. Could you let me know exactly when you were apprehended, before, during or after the match, please?

Bluebottle

[lisalegal]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

I was in the match watching it.

So, as I had passed the point of entering the ground can I still be charged with that offence?

thank you again, Lisa

P.s. to be fussy it was Whisky, not the Irish Whiskey stuff I know what I like.

[bluebottle]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

Hi Lisa,

What you are referring to is an old police trick called "Let's cover our backsides".

In order to proceed on a charge under Section 2(1)(b), the police would have to find the whisky bottle either as you are about to go through the turnstile or just after you have passed through the turnstile. They can also proceed if they had found the whisky bottle as you were approaching the ground to enter it. Normally, this is the precincts of the ground, around about a 25-metre radius, but this can be wider, depending on local circumstances.

In answer to your question as to whether the police can proceed with a charge under Section 2(1)(b) under the circumstances you describe, I have checked the Act and Crown Prosecution Service Legal Guidance and can find nothing which allows the police to do this.

I would consult a legal professional on this one as my gut feeling tells me the police are up to their old tricks of relying on individuals' lack of knowledge of the law and reluctance to challenge what they say in court. When you see a legal professional, I would discuss challenging the charges, especially the Section 2(1)(b) charge. The onus is on the police to prove they found the whisky bottle on you as you were entering the football ground. I would also find out if CCTV was in operation inside the ground and serve a Subject Access Request on the football ground and, if necessary, the police force involved also, using Section 7, Data Protection Act 1998. The requests will cost £10.00 each and the football ground and police will each have a maximum of 40 days to provide you with the footage. If a hearing is due to take place before then, ask a legal professional about expediting production of any CCTV footage. The police are, in any case, under a legal obligation to provide you with the evidence they intend to rely upon in order for you to prepare your defence.

I hated police corruption when I was a policeman and I still do. It gives the honest policemen and women a bad name that they do not deserve, sullies the reputation of the police service and undermines the justice system.

Get an appointment with a legal professional and challenges this.

Bluebottle

Footnote: One argument that could be put forward is that if the police allegedly found the whisky bottle as you were entering the ground, are they admitting to allowing you to proceed into the ground still in possession of the whisky bottle to watch the match knowing this. It's a valid argument.

[lisalegal]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

thank you bluebottle - you are a star !!!

[bluebottle]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

Hi Lisa,

When you have spoken to a legal professional, would you please let me know what they suggest, as I would be interested to know.

Many thanks.

Bluebottle

[strangewayofsavin]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

Talking from past experience, would the charge not be (the most naughtiest) with the others taken into consideration?

[bluebottle]

Re: one Act, 3 offences?

Talking from past experience, would the charge not be (the most naughtiest) with the others taken into consideration?

It's not that simple. Look at post #9 and you'll see why.:beagle: