'Four Corners' Rule

[charitynjw]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

HI
It is worth remembering that this problem only occurs in pre May2005 CCA agreements, after that time the form of the agreement is stipulated by the *2004 regulation SI. The new ones have the key information format where certain terms must be placed together and undispersed within the document.
The earlier regulations (pre2004) did not have the same restrictions regarding form and the signature could be anywhere within the document *(Reg 1983/1553).
The prescribed terms, (that is usually the interest and total credit etc) had to be within the signature document but there was no stipulation as to where. The rest of the terms can be on an attached document.
I would argue that they really must be within the same document but courts have ruled otherwise.
The difference as far as the cca is concerned derives from the use of the words, “contained” and “embodied”.(section 189 definitions)
Contained means that the information contained within the act must be within the same document whereas embodies means that the information can be in different documents but must be presented together with any other documents at the timed of signing.
So when section 60 says that the agreement must contain the signature and the prescribed terms it means that those particular terms must be within the document or within its four corners.
However when section61 says that the rest of the information must be embodies in the agreement it means that they can be in other documents related to the execution of the agreement.
Peter

*Have we got these on the forum?

[labman]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

http://www.johnpughschambers.co.uk/C..._Regs_1983.pdf

[Guest]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

HI

Unfortunately the 1983 regulations that are available on the web include the 2004/1482 ammendments.

You really need to see the orriginal unaltered regulations to get a picture of the situation before the "key information" format, which was introduced in 2005.
I used to have an electronic version of these but they went when my computer got a virus, i have a hard copy and i think some on here may have them on a PDF.

Peter

[charitynjw]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made

The 1983 Regs

[Guest]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made

The 1983 Regs

Hi Yes thanks for that, didnt know that the orriginals where still avaliable.
If you look at section 189 of the cca 1974 (definitions) it will show the meaning of "embodied" within the act.

Peter

[Guest]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

This is the bit from the Act

(4) A document embodies a provision if the provision is set out either in the document

itself or in another document referred to in it.

Peter

[charitynjw]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

Hi Peter,

Definitions will be the 'def' of me, lol (Sorry, I'll get me coat, shall I?)

This from the Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...ulation/4/made

(4) Subject to paragraphs (5) and (9) below, the information, statements of the protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes which this regulation requires documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements to contain, shall be set out in the order given by paragraphs (a) to (f) below under, where applicable, the headings specified below—
(a)the nature of the agreement as set out in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;
(b)the parties to the agreement as set out in paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;
(c)under the heading “Key Financial Information”, the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 6 to 8B and 11 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;
(d)under the heading “Other Financial Information”, the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 3 to 5, 9, 10, 14A and 18 to 19A of Schedule 1 to these regulations;
(e)under the heading “Key Information”—
(i)the information set out in paragraphs 20 to 24 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations; and
(ii)the statements of protection and remedies set out in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and
(f)the signature box and, where applicable, the separate box required by paragraph (7)(b) below;
and such information, statements of protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes shall be shown together as a whole and shall not be preceded by any information apart from trade names, logos or the reference number of the agreement or interspersed with any other information or wording apart from subtotals of total amounts and cross references to the terms of the agreement.

Confused or what? (Me, that is!!)

[labman]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

Isn't this for agreements made after the 1983 regulations though?

[charitynjw]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

Yes, from May 2005.

But referring to other posts (ie, Bill-K at #15), does it mean that after 2005 the prescribed terms,etc, had to be on the same face of the document as the signature?

[Guest]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

HI
Yes after May 2005 all sections of schedule 1 had fto be contained on the same document.
The no dispercement rule applies to all Subsections.

If you look at the previous regulations 1983/1553 the no dispersion regulation only applies to suib section 3 - 19 so it does not include the signature.

THe key to this is section 61 0f the CCA.

61 Signing of agreement
(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed
terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the
prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the
creditor or owner, and
(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than

implied terms, and

THe section (a) only says that the prescribed terms are to be contained in the agreement document together with the signature.

Section (b) says the rest of the terms can be emodied in the agreement,ie in another document.

In the earlier regulations this meant that the siganture and the prescribed terms could be on one document and all the other tems could be on a sepperate document although not dispersed.
THe 2004 ammendments made it impossible to spread the T and cs in this way because the no dispersion rules encompased the signature box. And the format is a requirement.

Peter

[Guest]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

Yes, from May 2005.

But referring to other posts (ie, Bill-K at #15), does it mean that after 2005 the prescribed terms,etc, had to be on the same face of the document as the signature?

HI
No the information can be spread over different pages but it must not be dispersed with other information
Peter

[Guest]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

Isn't this for agreements made after the 1983 regulations though?

Yes the 1983 regs were ammened by these in 2004 and they came into force in may2005

Peter

[labman]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

Agree with you there Peter. There is a common misconception (IMO) that everything should be on one side. However, the important bit is that the Prescribed Terms and Signature Box should be together 'as a whole' and not have anything else, saving subtotals etc.... in between. If the Prescribed Terms and Signature Box take more than one page, IMO that is irrelevant as long as the other factors mentioned above have been adhered to.

[CYNthesys]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

Is there any recent caselaw or updates re The Four Corners Rule please

[R0b]

Re: 'Four Corners' Rule

[MENTION=205]CYNthesys[/MENTION]

In what context are you looking for caselaw or updates on the four corners rule?

Many cases usually relate to reliance on something said prior to entering into the agreement, but they are usually caught out by the entire agreement clause in which a party cannot rely on something outside of the contract and cannot rely on any representations or statements made prior to it. The contract will constitute the whole agreement between the parties except for any amendments which may be made in writing.