Problems With Home Office!

[Noushki]

Hi Everybody
My friend and her husband are in trouble and they need an advice.
I April 2010 her husband was declined a UK resident permit and he lost his right to work legally in this country. At the same time they have never returned his passport, so even if he wanted to move somewhere else, he cannot do it. In In October my friends got married (she's Polish and he is Algerian). They both provided Home Office with the papers and pictures confirming their marriage. She was also requested to send her passport. It's been 7 months and she still has not received her passport back! She cannot even go to Poland to visit her family. It's been 2 years since his passport was taken away!

Not only Home Office respresentatives refuse to provide them with any info regarding his residency process, but also do not want to tell them when they will get their passports back. They say the process has not been completed and it may take a bit longer. WHAT KIND OF VAGUE ANSWER IS THAT?!!!!!!!!

How can they refuse to provide them with information regarding their life, their passport? They keep sending letters to Home Office, new application forms and nothing has been done.

Is there any legal act according to which Home Office CANNOT refuse to give them an updated information? What shall they do?

I will much appreciate your advise. My friends are stuck and they already once seeked legal advise, but they spent a lot of money and nothing happened.

Thank you!
Noushki (on behalf of Ilona and Wari)

[leclerc]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

Has she appealed the decision? Is that the reason that the process is not completed?

Why does she not have her Polish National ID card?

[jumper999]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

This is a very good site with a lot of information on there, maybe you should register and see what help is available

Britain Expat Forum for Expats Living in the UK - Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad

[Noushki]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

They appealed for his residency after they got married in October 2010 and they have not heard from Home Office since then. Not sure why she does not have ID card. The problem is poor guy is not able to work legally in this country, so they really struggle financially while waiting for the the final decision and most of all their passports.

I will have a look at the link. Thank you.!

Is it true that according to Data Protection Act 1998 they are entitled to receive full infirmation in writing about his appeal?

[Garlok]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

Thats a very good point LC. If she is in posession of that ID card (and if she isn't there is a big question mark) then she can travel anywhere she likes within the geographical boundaries of the EU including Poland.

If she is of Polish nationality then a vist to the Polish embassy or Polish consulate would be on order. I believe that part of her problem maybe that her new husband is Algerian. He is not entitled to work or reside here on a permanent basis. He is not an EU citizen and cannot become one just because he has married a Polish national living in the UK.

There are nations whose nationals are always held up to deep scrutiny because of the anti terror legislation and perhaps it is unfortunate that North african nationals come under this banner.

If Noushki thinks this is unfair and unreasonable she should perhaps take a look at Homeland Security in the United States of America.

regards
Garlok

[Noushki]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

I checked, Ilona has got ID card, so she can travel within EU. The problem mostly is that for 2 years she is supporting him and herself. She works hard to pay rent and bills and he is not able to do so. Also, he has never been able to meet her family as much as visit his own.

I do appreciate that some nationalities are disriminated and have problems with obtaining UK residency permit, but why is Home Office refusing to give them any information? Isn't it their right to know what is happening with his appeal and their passports? Since Octiber 2010 Home Office has NOT send one letter to confirm they got the papers and what is going on.

[Garlok]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

As I said Noushki,

Embassies and Consulates exist to help their nationals who are in a foreign country. The Home Office as far as I can see have no legal obligation to tell you anything until they make a final decision. There is no discrimination here (its illegal so I would be more careful of making that allegation), the Home Office are exercising their powers under the security legislation they have at their disposal for the benefit and safety of ALL of us. In the current climate it is highly likely that your friend's Algerian husband;s appeal will be turned down unless he has extremely good qualifications like a Doctorate in Applied Physics or Mathematics.

And I am not at all surpirsed that the passports as such remain impounded.

I can cite several cases of British Commonwealth citizens with similar problems who were or are involved with acquaintances of ours who have been detained in secure detention centres away from their wives and then deported summarily and immediately at the conclusion of unsuccessful appeals. One that we know of has children here as well.

If there is a very REAL problem then seek help from the Polish embassy and consulate, that is what they exist for.

I am sorry if you feel that this not the news you want to hear and I hope that someone can come along and say different but it is my opinion based on what you have said so far. And as this country has extended its hospitality to both you and your friend I do take exception to you saying that this is discrimination.

IT IS NOT!! It is the legal procedure put in place to keep you, your friend, me and mine and the rest of us safe and secure. Also to allow you and your friend to work here as well.

regards
Garlok

[Noushki]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

Hi Garlok
Thank you for your response.
Just to explain - my discrimination remark was referring to the fact that due to politics and fear or terrorism, honest citizens from countries like Algeria may have more problems with obtaining residency permit. I have NEVER accused UK of discriminating Polish people! You have completely misunderstood me.
I have been living here for over 8 years - I was relocated from Poland to UK and had an official work permit that after we joined EU was not required anymore. I have always been treated fairly and with respect. I have been judged based on my work experience, skills, personality and intelligence, not where I am from.
However my friend being Polish has nothing to do with this case. It is not about my Polish friend, but her Algerian husband who during last 2 years was not able to leave UK, or work. As a result they are struggling, his wife had to take on two jobs to make two ends meet. As you can imagine it is hard to survive in London on one salary.

You may be right that Home Office does not have to disclose any information until the process is completed (although i thought they have to due to Data Protection Act 1998). My concern is that my friends found them extremely unhelpful with giving advice. They have never told them what can they do to help the situation. They never advised my friend's husband on how he can apply for work permit or appeal for residency permit. It turns out that the only thing they were asked to do after his residency was declined, was to send papers confirming their marriage (no form, nothing!). They are simply frustrated and I am trying to help them by seeking advice and a solution to this problem.

I appreciate there are many people in similar or much worse position, but I am trying to help my friends and I believe that in that craziness of bureaucracy there is still something that can be done, or one person at Home Office who will emphasise with them and try to help them out.

Thank you
Noushki

[Noushki]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

Hi Garlok
Thank you for your response.
Just to explain - my discrimination remark was referring to the fact that due to politics and fear or terrorism, honest citizens from countries like Algeria may have more problems with obtaining residency permit. I have NEVER accused UK of discriminating Polish people! You have completely misunderstood me.
I have been living here for over 8 years - I was relocated from Poland to UK and had an official work permit that after we joined EU was not required anymore. I have always been treated fairly and with respect. I have been judged based on my work experience, skills, personality and intelligence, not where I am from.
However my friend being Polish has nothing to do with this case. It is not about my Polish friend, but her Algerian husband who during last 2 years was not able to leave UK, or work. As a result they are struggling, his wife had to take on two jobs to make two ends meet. As you can imagine it is hard to survive in London on one salary.

You may be right that Home Office does not have to disclose any information until the process is completed (although i thought they have to due to Data Protection Act 1998). My concern is that my friends found them extremely unhelpful with giving advice. They have never told them what can they do to help the situation. They never advised my friend's husband on how he can apply for work permit or appeal for residency permit. It turns out that the only thing they were asked to do after his residency was declined, was to send papers confirming their marriage (no form, nothing!). They are simply frustrated and I am trying to help them by seeking advice and a solution to this problem.

I appreciate there are many people in similar or much worse position, but I am trying to help my friends and I believe that in that craziness of bureaucracy there is still something that can be done, or one person at Home Office who will emphasise with them and try to help them out.

Thank you
Noushki

[Garlok]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

Ok Noushki,

Now I am not a family law expert by any means, but I can only reiterate what I have said. The Home Office do not have to "help". they are there to administer and uphold the law and procedures which have been put into place by Parliament.

Your friend is a Polish national who has married an Algerian national. Your friend's husband has been to date refused permanent residency in the UK despite his marriage to an EU citizen who is working here. Taking a strict view of the situation I would suggest that it is in fact an issue which should be dealt with by the Polish authorities. In fact I would go so far as to suggest that as they have had no response from professional legal advice they are in fact the last port of call for your friends.

Fundamentally it is nothing to do with the UK authorities. You have not said and nor would I ask you to divulge how your friend's husband came to be here in the first place, hence I can only suggest that the Home Office have taken the view that he is an illegal alien or he is not here legitimately at all or that he has wilfully overstayed his visitors visa.

He has no prescriptive right as a non EU citizen to be here. He may have married an EU citizen who is not a UK citizen during his stay in our country but that does not give him any right to be here or remain here. He must be prepared to go though all of the procedures laid down and accept whatever decision is made. you have not said how he came here, direct or via an overland route. Under international law he may NOT claim political asylum if his feet have touched the soil of any safe country (which all EU nations are) on the way here. It is a fundamental principle of all the civilised nations Backed by the United Nations charter that the persecuted MUST claim political asylum in very first safe country they reach.

As I said I feel that this is in fact a matter for the POLISH authorities to deal with, he has married a Polish national and hence his only claim I would think is to try to become a Polish national himself and I think that can only happen in Poland but would stand corrected. It is irrelevant that his wife as an EU citizen just happens to be working in the UK.

Is there a problem with speaking to the Polish authorities and appealing for their help? They seem to be very reluctant. British travellers despite our pretty useless foreign Office are always advised to seek consular help. My own son has permanent residency in another non EU country a long way away. In the State where he lives people in your friend's husband's position are taken out to a camp miles from anywhere (even legitimate asylum seekers) where they are treated with only repeat only basic humane conditions and it takes a minimum of nine months to even get an investigation into the person's legitimacy started. 95% of cases either fail or the claimant leaves freely of his her own free will. As I am sure your friend's husband could if he was to ask the Algerian embassy to get his passport so that he could leave voluntarily.

I am truly sorry for this situation but I think your friends need to face facts and reality.

Let us hope that someone on Beagles has had experience of these matters and can come along with better advice.

regards
Garlok

[Caspar]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

Before my brother moved to a very senior position in the DWP he was Executive Director of Enforcement and Removals for the Home Office. You'd be amazed at some of the problems they find when processing things. Equally it may just be an innocent mistake.

Which of the passport offices did he apply to? As has been mentioned already, the fact that they are married gives no legal right for him to stay in the UK. It might even be that as they were married at the time they were, the Home Office are investigating to ensure it is a genuine marriage, as a lot of people abuse this as a reason for staying in the UK, especially if they were married in a Church of England church as these are currently a loophole in the law, and it is purely up to the Diocesan Registrar whether or not they are allowed to be married. There have been stories in the press of corrupt vicars marrying couples in order to help them gain the right to stay in the country.

If he got a Certificate of Approval for a civil ceremony at this time, having just been declined by the Home Office, it might have aroused suspicion as to his motives for wanting to get married. It is strange they have been asked to send wedding photos etc.... why was this? I know someone who was declined a COA as a foreign national and they were asked to supply proof that their relationship was genuine by supplying past birthday cards, Valentines cards, photographs going back several years of them together etc...

I'm not saying this is what has happened, I'm just saying there are lots of reasons, including many you and I would never dream about, why it may have happened. Alternatively, as said above, it could just be a mistake.

If she is here long term and working, why does she not go to see her MP and get them involved. They would carry much more clout at the Home Office than any "ordinary" person.

[Noushki]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

Thank you guys! I really appreciate your input, i think you both came up with some good tips. I will share them with my friends. I think they shall speak to Polish authorities and see what can be done. I do not know the circumstances in which Wari came to UK, but i know it is a legimate married couple who love each other very much. Hence I am trying to help...

The problem is that until now they were not really aware of their rights and many possible solutions. They paid the lawyer a lot of money and he did so little. I think you're right it may be a difficult one to resolve, but well - let's hope for the best.

Thank you. Have a nice evening.
Noushki

[Garlok]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

Hi Noushki,

Thank you for your acknowledgement and good wishes. I am just sorry that we could not offer better hope or better options for your friends. Let us hope that something good does come out of this.

If you think we can help further just shout and I am sure the folks on LB will try.

Best regards
Garlok

[MIKE770]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

Being Algerian will no doubt eventualy be told to go back there and apply through local Embassies, but would probably have to produce any Home Office Documents he may hold at the time, of course Polish Embassy initially as she is a Polish Subject, but British Embassy (well could try). If it came to that remember Do Not Try To Avoid Giving Previous Applications to Other Embassies, it would do Them no good.

Having come across this type situation in the past, Home Office paperwork can be very long drawn out, including appeals, I know I have been there, including taking part in a BBC programe "Them & Us" years ago (trying to get wife & daughter into the UK).

[CleverClogs]

Re: Problems With Home Office!

In the current climate it is highly likely that your friend's Algerian husband;s appeal will be turned down unless he has extremely good qualifications like a Doctorate in Applied Physics or Mathematics.

But not if his Doctorate was in chemistry, as he'd then be more than capable of making pentaerythritol tetranitrate or isopropyl-methylphosphonofluoridate? :tinysmile_grin_t:

And I am not at all surpirsed that the passports as such remain impounded^W lost.

FYPFY.