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Hi All,
I received a fine and duly paid it then I was contacted by Baliffs seeking the money. I informed them I had already paid it but they said I had paid it (to the court) too late (I paid it by the automatic payment line and it was accepted.
The court then 3 weeks later REFUNDED the money!. During this period I had been presenting the following argument. Their reply received today (3 weeks later) follows.
T[B]hanks for your email and the copy of the warrant. The copy of the distress warrants confirms that is was issued on the 16th March. This is too early as detailed below:
"I was given until close of business on Monday 28th Feb to make payment and yet, even allowing for admin time etc, a Further Steps Notice was sent the following day; Tuesday 1st March according to your email.
A period to allow for posting must be given and in accordance with Section 7 of the Interpretation Act service by post is "deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved" in the case of FIRST CLASS MAIL, on the 2nd working day after posting and in the case of SECOND CLASS MAIL, on the 4th working day after posting (working days are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.).
Furthermore, under Part 9 (Schedule 5) (Section 40) of the Courts Act 2003, it provides that you have "10 working days" in which to appeal the Further Steps Notice. The FSN also states upon it that you must pay "within 10 working days".
Therefore, as confirmed by yourself/ The court, a letter was sent on 1st March and IF sent by First Class post was "deemed" served on me on 4th March.
A further 10 "working days" MUST be allowed for either payment to be received or an appeal made. This would therefore give me until 17th March. The VERY EARLIEST that the court could possibly issue a Distress Warrant was therefore, Friday, 18th March. The court issued the Distress Warrant on 16th March and clearly, this was TOO EARLY."
The Court's Reply:
"Mr xxxx
I sought some guidance from one of our legal advisers and after looking at the legislation that you refer to, has provided this response:
I have had a look at the legislation to which Mr Lyon is referring. Paragraph 37 of Schedule 5 is given below:
"37[F32(1)This paragraph applies if—(a)P is in default on a collection order,(b)paragraph 26 does not apply, and(c)none of the following is pending—(i)an application under paragraph 31(1) (application to fines officer for variation and reserve terms),(ii)an appeal under paragraph 32(1) (appeal against decision of fines officer),(iii)a reference under paragraph 42 (power of fines officer to refer case to magistrates' court).F33. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .](6)The fines officer must—(a)refer P’s case to the magistrates' court, or(b)deliver to P a notice (a “further steps notice”) that he intends to take one or more of the steps listed in paragraph 38.(7)Any steps that the fines officer intends to take must be specified in the notice.(8)A further steps notice must be in writing and dated.(9)P may, within 10 working days from the date of the further steps notice, appeal to the magistrates' court against it."
You will see that it says that the notice must be dated and that there are ten working days from the date of the notice (not from the date it was received) to appeal the notice.
I also give paragraph 40 of Schedule 5 (to which Mr xxx has already referred you to):
"40If—(a)P does not appeal within 10 working days against a further steps notice, or(b)he does so but the further steps notice is confirmed or varied,any step specified in the notice (or the notice as varied) may be taken"
I acknowledge the fact that my interpretation of this is clearly different to yours, but the legislation (highlighted above) states that an individual has 10 working days from the date of the Further Steps Notice to appeal and in your case this would mean that the Distress Warrant legitimately could have been produced from the 15th March to conform to the legislation and it was actually produced on 16th March. There is no reference made in the Courts Act legislation to the provision of additional time being given for postage and therefore, I do not believe that there is a requirement to include any additional days, to the 10 working days stated in paragraph 37 of schedule 5.
Therefore, I have to conclude, after seeking legal advice, that the warrant was indeed issued in accordance with the timescales laid down in the legislation.
The distress warrant has currently had a hold placed upon it, pending the outcome of this complaint and I will be asking for that hold to be removed to allow Phillips to pursue payment on the warrant.
I appreciate that this is not the outcome that you were seeking and therefore, if you wish to escalate this matter further you must contact the following team, based at our headquarters.
Customer Service Team
102 Petty France
1st Floor, Zone C
London
SW1H 9AJ
xxxxxxx
Manager"
Can anyone please advise What I should do?
Many thanks
Doug
I received a fine and duly paid it then I was contacted by Baliffs seeking the money. I informed them I had already paid it but they said I had paid it (to the court) too late (I paid it by the automatic payment line and it was accepted.
The court then 3 weeks later REFUNDED the money!. During this period I had been presenting the following argument. Their reply received today (3 weeks later) follows.
T[B]hanks for your email and the copy of the warrant. The copy of the distress warrants confirms that is was issued on the 16th March. This is too early as detailed below:
"I was given until close of business on Monday 28th Feb to make payment and yet, even allowing for admin time etc, a Further Steps Notice was sent the following day; Tuesday 1st March according to your email.
A period to allow for posting must be given and in accordance with Section 7 of the Interpretation Act service by post is "deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved" in the case of FIRST CLASS MAIL, on the 2nd working day after posting and in the case of SECOND CLASS MAIL, on the 4th working day after posting (working days are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.).
Furthermore, under Part 9 (Schedule 5) (Section 40) of the Courts Act 2003, it provides that you have "10 working days" in which to appeal the Further Steps Notice. The FSN also states upon it that you must pay "within 10 working days".
Therefore, as confirmed by yourself/ The court, a letter was sent on 1st March and IF sent by First Class post was "deemed" served on me on 4th March.
A further 10 "working days" MUST be allowed for either payment to be received or an appeal made. This would therefore give me until 17th March. The VERY EARLIEST that the court could possibly issue a Distress Warrant was therefore, Friday, 18th March. The court issued the Distress Warrant on 16th March and clearly, this was TOO EARLY."
The Court's Reply:
"Mr xxxx
I sought some guidance from one of our legal advisers and after looking at the legislation that you refer to, has provided this response:
I have had a look at the legislation to which Mr Lyon is referring. Paragraph 37 of Schedule 5 is given below:
"37[F32(1)This paragraph applies if—(a)P is in default on a collection order,(b)paragraph 26 does not apply, and(c)none of the following is pending—(i)an application under paragraph 31(1) (application to fines officer for variation and reserve terms),(ii)an appeal under paragraph 32(1) (appeal against decision of fines officer),(iii)a reference under paragraph 42 (power of fines officer to refer case to magistrates' court).F33. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .](6)The fines officer must—(a)refer P’s case to the magistrates' court, or(b)deliver to P a notice (a “further steps notice”) that he intends to take one or more of the steps listed in paragraph 38.(7)Any steps that the fines officer intends to take must be specified in the notice.(8)A further steps notice must be in writing and dated.(9)P may, within 10 working days from the date of the further steps notice, appeal to the magistrates' court against it."
You will see that it says that the notice must be dated and that there are ten working days from the date of the notice (not from the date it was received) to appeal the notice.
I also give paragraph 40 of Schedule 5 (to which Mr xxx has already referred you to):
"40If—(a)P does not appeal within 10 working days against a further steps notice, or(b)he does so but the further steps notice is confirmed or varied,any step specified in the notice (or the notice as varied) may be taken"
I acknowledge the fact that my interpretation of this is clearly different to yours, but the legislation (highlighted above) states that an individual has 10 working days from the date of the Further Steps Notice to appeal and in your case this would mean that the Distress Warrant legitimately could have been produced from the 15th March to conform to the legislation and it was actually produced on 16th March. There is no reference made in the Courts Act legislation to the provision of additional time being given for postage and therefore, I do not believe that there is a requirement to include any additional days, to the 10 working days stated in paragraph 37 of schedule 5.
Therefore, I have to conclude, after seeking legal advice, that the warrant was indeed issued in accordance with the timescales laid down in the legislation.
The distress warrant has currently had a hold placed upon it, pending the outcome of this complaint and I will be asking for that hold to be removed to allow Phillips to pursue payment on the warrant.
I appreciate that this is not the outcome that you were seeking and therefore, if you wish to escalate this matter further you must contact the following team, based at our headquarters.
Customer Service Team
102 Petty France
1st Floor, Zone C
London
SW1H 9AJ
xxxxxxx
Manager"
Can anyone please advise What I should do?
Many thanks
Doug
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