Holidays

[scoobydoo]

is there anyone around who has any knowledge on consumer rights on holidays ? Not delayed flights .

[R0b]

If you give some background to your situation then we might be able to help

[scoobydoo]

Booked a holiday with Tui . Paid in full . 8 days before the holiday they cancelled by an email that went into my spam . 3 days before the holiday theirnon line system let me print all the documents and check in , and then by accident I found the email . Called them and they said I had a choice of 4 hotels or if something else was available I had to pay more . Long story but there was nothing available and the customer service was appalling. I ended up cancelling and they said it would take at least 5 days to get my money back . Because we could not change our holiday dates we ended up booking something else . Which cost us more money and we had to put on a credit card because we had not had a refund. Now I checked the confusing amount of legal stuff out there and it seems that they are breaking the package travel regulations by saying we should have paid more for another holiday . Also they should in theory compensate us for causing us to spend more and incurring interest on our card etc. I have quoted the relevant legal jargon and they are offering £200 holiday vouchers . Tbh I am so fed up with their cuctomer service I am trying to push for more but their argument is t&c overrule eu regulations . So now I am just fighting to try and prove them wrong .

[R0b]

Just a quick suggestions, it would be helpful to break up long paragraphs as it can be difficult to read moving from one thing to another.

I am assuming you booked a package holiday with TUI because you mentioned the Package Travel Regulations. The contract is subject to the Regulations and if there is any inconsistency then the Regulations would trump over the contract terms

1. What did the email from TUI say about cancellation?

2. What exactly did you quote to TUI about the Package Travel Regulations?

Depending on the above will determine what sort of options you have. but to give you a general background, Regulation 13 sets out what happens if the package holiday is cancelled and comes in two parts. The first part says that you are entitled to:

1. a substitute package holiday which is of equal or superior quality if you are offered one by the operator
2. a substitute package holiday which is inferior to the one you booked plus a refund of the difference, again if you are offered on by the operator
3. a full refund

The second part of Regulation 13 says that you are entitled to compensation unless the reason for cancellation falls into one of the following categories:

(a) the package is cancelled because the number of persons who agree to take it is less than the minimum number required and you are informed of the cancellation, in writing, within the period indicated in the description of the package holiday; or

(b) the package holiday is cancelled by reason of unusual and unforeseeable circumstances beyond the control of the operator.

Also, TUI's terms and conditions on cancellation says the following (note my underline)

3. If We Cancel Your Booking

We aim to provide your holiday as booked. But if, for example, there are not enough people booked on your holiday or you do not pay the balance of the holiday price on time, we may cancel it. We reserve the right to cancel your holiday in any circumstances but if we cancel your holiday, except where this is because you have not paid, you can either have a refund or accept a replacement holiday from us of equivalent or similar standard and price, if we are able to offer you one. We may offer you a replacement holiday from another company in our group. Should you choose this option the terms and conditions of your holiday will not change and these conditions will still apply to your booking. In either case, we will pay you compensation, using the scale shown (unless we cancel your holiday because you do not pay us the balance of the holiday price or because of one of the events listed in the ‘Important Note – Events Beyond Our Control’) and we will always refund the difference in price if the replacement holiday is of a lower standard and price. We will not cancel your holiday less than 12 weeks before you go, unless this is the result of one of the events in the "Important Note: Events Beyond Our Control".

It really comes down to the reason why they cancelled. If it didn't fall within the events beyond their control then you might have cause to argue that they are in breach of contract and the losses you suffered were as a direct result of them cancelling, unless the email actually said that they were making a change to your booking in which case another clause is applicable to the one above.

[scoobydoo]

Thank you for your reply . Of course they are going to say it was beyond their control because it was building works . But the hotel was supposed to be finished in March and I did not realise they had several postponements already . But it is a tui resort so they should have full knowledge of what was happening . I am angry more because they don’t have a system where they send and email and then you click to say you have read it and then they could follow up with a call for those like me who had the email go into junk .And then customer service was appalling. I quoted them two things that they refuse to answer .

legally entitled to compensation if:

• the holiday you went on was lower in value than the one you booked, eg you paid for a deluxe room but only got a standard room - this is called ‘loss of value’ and you can claim back the difference in value
• you had to spend extra money because of a problem with the holiday, eg you had to pay for another hotel because there were fewer beds than you booked - this is called claiming for ‘out-of-pocket expenses’
• something goes wrong that causes you distress or disappointment, eg if the pool was closed for the whole trip - this is called ‘loss of enjoyment’

[scoobydoo]

I also quoted this According to the package holiday regulations this is not true ?

(8) Where the organiser is unable to provide a significant proportion of the travel services as agreed in the package travel contract, the organiser must offer, at no extra cost to the traveller, suitable alternative arrangements of, where possible, equivalent or higher quality than those specified in the contract, for the continuation of the package, including where the traveller’s return to the place of departure is agreed.

(9) Where the organiser offers proposed alternative arrangements which result in a package of lower quality than that specified in the package travel contract, the organiser must grant the traveller an appropriate price reduction.

(10) The traveller may reject the proposed alternative arrangements offered under paragraph (8) only if—

(a)they are not comparable to the arrangements which were agreed in the package travel contract; or
(b)the price reduction granted is inadequate.
(11) Where—

(a)a lack of conformity substantially affects the performance of the package; and
(b)the organiser fails to remedy the lack of conformity within the reasonable period,
the traveller may terminate the package travel contract without paying a termination fee and, where appropriate, is entitled to a price reduction, or compensation for damages, or both, in accordance with regulation 16.

2) I found on the internet a travel magazine article which was dated 23rd May in which the delay was discussed and yet you did not contact the customers involved?

I am still very angry about this whole debacle and the way it was handled and I will be investigating every way possible to recover some of my extra costs . Especially as you were promoting this hotel so strongly ( cookies/ pop ups etc)

[scoobydoo]

Also if a customer cancels a holiday they loose their deposit which on average could be £300 per person. If they cancel they offer £30 per person , is that not a disproportionate offer ?

[scoobydoo]

So what I need to know is it right that their terms and conditions supercede European law?
If I back down , because my mother is ill and I don’t have the right in me do I legally have to accept their offer in vouchers?

Btw I was on here for the original bank charges fight and a few of the original members might remember me . But I am very rusty and no nothing about this area .

[scoobydoo]

BTW air was a TUI resort that they are building themselves. So I guess it is under their control

[scoobydoo]

Sorry repeated point . Had a long day

[R0b]

So what I need to know is it right that their terms and conditions supercede European law?

That's a question that should be obvious to you I think - if you entered into a contract to rob a bank, would the terms and conditions of that contract supersede the law? Of course it wouldn't. Legislation is the rule of law i.e. it trumps anything else and the terms and conditions of a contract amount to common law (derived from cases and judgments) so the Regulations govern the contract and cannot contradict those terms otherwise they would be be void.

Also if a customer cancels a holiday they loose their deposit which on average could be £300 per person. If they cancel they offer £30 per person , is that not a disproportionate offer ?

Not necessarily, the £30 you are referring to is a major change to your holiday rather than actually cancelling the whole thing, and it would be compensation for inconvenience than anything else, since they would be offering you a different hotel which is equivalent or of superior quality to the one you booked or alternatively a different holiday if possible. Depending on the circumstances, the £300 loss of deposit or £30 compensation might be inadequate and/or could be considered unfair.

I think you need to take a step back and start from the beginning, I did mention that we need to know exactly what was said in the email but you seem to be too hung up on the regulations and what front line customer service staff are saying. Unless you can copy and paste the email or upload a screenshot of it, I still don't actually know whether TUI have said they are cancelling the holiday or if they are saying that there has been a change to it.

Your remedies in terms of what you can recover may be different depending on the contents of the email, so its best to post up and we can see what we are working with