Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

[ostell]

Finding confusing and conflicting advice everywhere I look. My wife is Executor for a friend who died last week. She does not own her flat (that's another story!) and has about £17,000 in the bank. Possessions are just the normal contents of a 1 bedroom flat, worth next to nothing if put up for sale. We have the original of the will, which is mainly distributing to charities.

From what I can find out the amount is less, by a long way, than the inheritance tax limit, there are no shares, other investments or properties.

Does it have to go to probate?

[Kati]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

[MENTION=85500]Peridot[/MENTION] ??

[des8]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

As long as the bank are prepared to release the funds to your wife, there is no need to apply for probate as there are no shares or property involved.

If your wife is concerned she might purchase executors liability insurance, the premium being paid from the estate.

[ostell]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

Thanks. The bank have been very good indeed. We had power of attorney and they quickly gave us access to the accounts while the lady was in hospital and not likely to come out. We have an appointment Tuesday, when we should have the death certificate, to set up another account to move the money and then pay out from that. We knew that the account would be cleared by the daughter given half a chance.

The lady wrote another will and specifically stated that her estranged daughter was not to receive anything at all, for many reasons, and we had to move fast to prevent it. When the daughter discovered her mother was seriously ill she phoned the hospital everyday to see if how her mother was. It was more a matter of seeing if her mother was dead so that she could sell the flat that was given to her (more than 7 years ago !) We learnt about the death late Tuesday afternoon. On Wednesday morning, about 9:15, my wife called the undertaker and the hospital only to find that the daughter had already contacted them. The husband arrived at the flat in the UK Thursday afternoon. The daughter has no plans to come over for the funeral, the son in law is clearing the flat and putting it up for sale. I don't think we'll see him at the funeral either.

The daughter lives in New Zealand. Her mother had given her quite a considerable sum of money to help her buy a 4 bedroom house when she moved to New Zealand with her husband and children some 12 years ago, the intention being to move out and stay with them. Additional money was sent out from time to time. The story kept coming back that they couldn't afford to buy and after the last move, which they said again was rented, I did a check online and found, from the NZ equivalent of the land registry that they had indeed bought the house but still insisted that it was rented and so no room for mother to come and stay. This prompted the new will with nothing left to the daughter. The lady was 88 on her last birthday and we did a little birthday party for her, with a few of the relatives she hadn't seen for years. Noting at all from daughter, no card, no phone call, no email, no nothing. The lady died of a broken heart rather than anything else.

Well that's off my chest.

[des8]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

Sad indeed [MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION].

Son in Law is clearing flat? what's he doing with contents as only the executor should be seeing to that?

[ostell]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

Unfortunately he had a key and arrived a day before he was expected. We did have the chance to remove jewellery and other items that had been willed to others or promised. All that was left was the normal remains that would have had to be given to a house clearance company at a cost to the estate. He did have the sense to ask first and was given permission. Rather him doing it than a charge on the estate.

My wife and I had already been through the flat checking all the drawers and cupboards. and removing items of sentimental and intrinsic value (not a lot). We had known it was coming and had a week to prepare for the eventual result. I had read the meters and switched everything off. He had the temerity to switch it all on again, assuming that the estate would pay. Luckily it's smart meters and the energy suppliers agreed with my readings and he will be getting a "Welcome" letter from the company anytime soon, that will be a nice surprise, and the estate will be getting a cheque for the credit that was on the account.

We hope we got Virgin Media to react fast enough so that the phone was disconnected before he got there. I didn't want to have to pay for calls to New Zealand ! I have names, dates and times I called them to explain the situation. There hours seem to be longer than every one elses. I was promised cut off within 24 hours I do'n know which 24.

There must be about 3 pairs of eyes around that know the story and are watching him and reporting.

[Peridot]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

Hi Ostell,

I did worry when you initially mentioned the son in law clearing the flat, but it seems you have dealt with this sensibly. I assume the flat has now been returned to the landlord?

As executors you should contact the charities to inform them they are beneficiaries and see what their view is. Would they be content with estate accounts only or would they expect probate to be obtained, bearing in mind the size of the estate, and possible claim from the daughter.

The charities will want to see a break down of the estate which would need to include all items of value.
You mentioned you had removed certain items promised to others. Legally, unless the item is specifically left to the individual by Will, they remain part of the estate and should be dealt with as part of the administration of the estate. Mementos of little or no value may not be an issue, but more valuable items such as jewellery should only be distributed to those named beneficiaries under the Will.

The other thing t would bear in mind, is the estranged daughter. She may believe she has a claim on the estate, whether or not this is a possibility is not relevant at this point, but it may be another factor to consider whether probate should be obtained. There is a 6 mth timelimit for bringing a claim against the estate, after which, unless the Court allowed it, no one could make a claim.

Just be aware of your duties as executor to the residuary beneficiaries during this process.

[ostell]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

Thanks for the comments, the flat is owned by the daughter. It was transferred to her over 7 years ago (just !!) so the son in law is an agent of the landlord.

The charities, several off them, have fixed amounts under the will, with the residue of the estate split equally between named individuals. The residual beneficiaries are known to us personally and have been helping with the work involved and are happy about what has been done. I've been in contact with the DWP and there is more pension to come, including the winter fuel allowance!, but then there may may be unspecified sums to be claimed back because of the stay in hospital etc.

The promised items that were not in the will were of low value, more sentimental than anything else. The jewellery, on inspection, also appears to be of little value, not hallmarked and not gemstones.

I did wonder if the daughter would fight it but a line in the will should protect. It states "I bequeath nothing in this will to my daughter as she has been adequately provided for in the previous transfer of the property". So our friend knew what she was doing.

I must admit the daughter was not best pleased when she called us after hearing that my wife was executor and demanded a copy of the new will, a request that was firmly refused. She also thought that as she was executor in the previous will then she would be a joint executor with my wife. It was pointed out to her that the new revoked the will she had in her possession. Not a happy bunny, not a pleasant phone call.

[des8]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

And the estate being small it is hardly likely she will try for a claim using Inheritance Act !

[Peridot]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

Sounds like you’ve got it all under control Ostell.
Had the lady been assessed for care fees? The daughter may have a surprise if the Local Authority were funding any care. Many of them are looking behind House ‘giftings’ to children. The 7 year rule wouldn’t apply to any investigations by the Local Authority.
Not an issue for the executor, but maybe the daughter.

[ostell]

Re: Is it necessary to apply for Probate?

She had been assessed for care fees and the local authority were told, some time ago, about the transfer of the property but that caused a sharp intake of breath and a "nothing to do with us" comment. This was when we were trying to get her into more suitable accommodation for a severely disabled 86 year old.

We did try to get the daughter to reverse the transfer so that mother could then sell the flat and buy another property in sheltered accommodation but daughter wouldn't respond to letters from the solicitor, emails from me (using multiple email addresses) and even a letter forwarded by a friend in NZ.