What does this Mean?

[cassie53]

My son was in court for a molestation order, which got granted (still cannot believe it). He has had a letter with this wording, and we are not sure what it means


IT IS ORDERED THAT:
The non Molestation Order of ..... be discharged, undertakings having been given and accepted.

Does that mean it starts from now? or that it has been scrapped?

Thanks

[nemesis45]

Re: What does this Mean?

My son was in court for a molestation order, which got granted (still cannot believe it). He has had a letter with this wording, and we are not sure what it means


IT IS ORDERED THAT:
The non Molestation Order of ..... be discharged, undertakings having been given and accepted.

Does that mean it starts from now? or that it has been scrapped?

Thanks

Good morning,

It means that the court has lifted the order as your son has made " promises" in regard to his behaviour which have been by the court and the complainant.
He would no doubt be brought before the court if the undertakings are breached,

nem

- - - Updated - - -

My son was in court for a molestation order, which got granted (still cannot believe it). He has had a letter with this wording, and we are not sure what it means


IT IS ORDERED THAT:
The non Molestation Order of ..... be discharged, undertakings having been given and accepted.

Does that mean it starts from now? or that it has been scrapped?

Thanks

Good morning,

It means that the court has lifted the order as your son has made " promises" in regard to his behaviour which have been by the court and the complainant.
He would no doubt be brought before the court if the undertakings are breached,

nem

[cassie53]

Re: What does this Mean?

Hi Nem,

Sorry to sound thick, but does this mean that the Molestation Order is now void? Not handing over him, and his partner keeps trying to get him to do things in the house, and the order says he is not to go there, and it has been really worrying me . Thanks

[nemesis45]

Re: What does this Mean?

Hi Nem,

Sorry to sound thick, but does this mean that the Molestation Order is now void? Not handing over him, and his partner keeps trying to get him to do things in the house, and the order says he is not to go there, and it has been really worrying me . Thanks

Yes the order has been lifted, but he must keep to the undertaking / promises he has made to the court.

nem

[cassie53]

Re: What does this Mean?

The order states he must not go round to his house, his partner is asking him to do jobs - would that be allowed? This order is really stressing me out as I am frightened, that if she does not notify anyone, her mum who lives at their house might.

[nemesis45]

Re: What does this Mean?

The order states he must not go round to his house, his partner is asking him to do jobs - would that be allowed? This order is really stressing me out as I am frightened, that if she does not notify anyone, her mum who lives at their house might.

He must not go to/enter the partners house for any reason.
Request for assistance do not make it right for him to go to the house.

Notify some one????

nem

[Openlaw15]

Re: What does this Mean?

My son was in court for a molestation order, which got granted (still cannot believe it). He has had a letter with this wording, and we are not sure what it means


IT IS ORDERED THAT:
The non Molestation Order of ..... be discharged, undertakings having been given and accepted.

Does that mean it starts from now? or that it has been scrapped?

Thanks

Hello, Cassie

The Undertaking is an alternative remedy to a Non Molest. Order (NMO) under family law. If the offence is not serious an Undertaking is usually offered by the judge or conceded by the other party, ie you son or the other person who wanted the NMO, as saves the expense of a court hearing 'of fact'. What the Undertaking means is if your son is accused (allegations) of doing anything wrong he will be back in court as though it were an NMO. An Undertaking is like a guarantee that your son will not breach the terms of what would have been the NMO.

What are the facts, why did he accept an Undertaking? What are the terms of either the NMO or the Undertaking? Whatever these terms are the things your son must comply with.

[Openlaw15]

Re: What does this Mean?

The order states he must not go round to his house, his partner is asking him to do jobs - would that be allowed? This order is really stressing me out as I am frightened, that if she does not notify anyone, her mum who lives at their house might.

Cassie, who got the Undertaking against him in the first place?

[cassie53]

Re: What does this Mean?

He had no solicitor, they would not let me go in, he said they never asked him anything, but it is the first time he has been in court for anything and was really nervous. The court was suuposed to start at 10.00am and her solicitor did not show up till 10.20, and did not know who she was, so they were chatting for ages. She came over to us about 10.50 and went over what she was planning to do, we said what we did not agree on, she went in to see the judge. My son went in at a couple of minutes to 11.00 and was out again by 11.05. He only knew about the order on a thursday evening (after 5pm) and had to go to court the following Friday. So not alot of time to sort things out, and money played a part as well, he was being quoted 1500+. Money he could not get in such a short time. Did get a solicitor who thought it would be a good idea to give my son a letter that the Judge would act on, but it was not worth the money it was written.

[Openlaw15]

Re: What does this Mean?

He had no solicitor, they would not let me go in, he said they never asked him anything, but it is the first time he has been in court for anything and was really nervous. The court was suuposed to start at 10.00am and her solicitor did not show up till 10.20, and did not know who she was, so they were chatting for ages. She came over to us about 10.50 and went over what she was planning to do, we said what we did not agree on, she went in to see the judge. My son went in at a couple of minutes to 11.00 and was out again by 11.05. He only knew about the order on a thursday evening (after 5pm) and had to go to court the following Friday. So not alot of time to sort things out, and money played a part as well, he was being quoted 1500+. Money he could not get in such a short time. Did get a solicitor who thought it would be a good idea to give my son a letter that the Judge would act on, but it was not worth the money it was written.

Cassie, you could have went in legally as a McKenzie Friend, ie you sit there and take notes and beckon your son over for instructions; you also could have asked for a disclosure for any evidence against your son. What did the solicitor advise your son/ you, why didn't you agree with it. Please tell me the facts of your son's case. Was he living in the property prior to the NMO/ Undertaking, if not why not? Did your son harm or threaten the NMO claimant or children in any way, were the police called at any time for such threats or such harm?

[cassie53]

Re: What does this Mean?

HI,
It is a long story. But she told him christmas eve she wanted him out so she could sort herself out. (They have three children). He went and came to my house, he is in bits (and stillis). She told him she wanted time - same old story. He had his suspicions but she denied anything was going on. He went to see CAB after about 6 weeks to see what he should do (he jointly owns the house with his partner, but the mother in law lives there as well - which did not help.) He looked after the kids - took the kids training, his eldest one is signed for a premier team under 12's, so he takes him two times a week to the training, and a again on a Saturday and he plays on a Sunday. There were rows between the two of them - on both sides, but I could see that my son would be worse as he was away from his children living at mine (not easy) and no signs of any improvement betweenthe two of them. CAB told him to go back home, as he was entitled to stay in his own home. Stayed there and she went out every evening and somtimes not coming home till the morning. A letter arrived from a solicitor his partner had contacted asking him to leave the home for the sake of the children etc. etc. Had another chat with her, and he came back home. They agreed to seel the house, but then she said no she did not want to as she would not get a mortgage, he needs the house to be sold so he can have a place of his own. So he stayed home for a couple of weeks and saw it was going nowhere so he moved back in. It was on a friday night he got her phone and found out that she had been having an affair with another woman, who had been staying in the house while he was at mine. Also when he found out the woman and his partner was upstairs int he bedroom in his bed, he lost it. You can imagine the scene, and all the build up of what had been going on since Christmas. Mayhem. He tried to bring the children back to my house but she stopped him, and only the 11 year old came home to me with my son. Never seen him in such a state. He went back in the early hours and woke her up, and tried to talk to her but she ridiculed him and another row started. He left - he never touched her at all. 6.30 the next morning the police arrived and told him he was being charged with common assault. He was ther till 10.30 that evening. He was released with no charge, no warning - nothing. Thursday the following week the Molestation Order arrived. This was the first time the police had been called.

[Openlaw15]

Re: What does this Mean?

HI,

It is a long story. But she told him christmas eve she wanted him out so she could sort herself out. (They have three children). He went and came to my house, he is in bits (and stillis). She told him she wanted time - same old story. He had his suspicions but she denied anything was going on. He went to see CAB after about 6 weeks to see what he should do (he jointly owns the house with his partner, but the mother in law lives there as well - which did not help.) He looked after the kids - took the kids training, his eldest one is signed for a premier team under 12's, so he takes him two times a week to the training, and a again on a Saturday and he plays on a Sunday. There were rows between the two of them - on both sides, but I could see that my son would be worse as he was away from his children living at mine (not easy) and no signs of any improvement between the two of them. CAB told him to go back home, as he was entitled to stay in his own home. Stayed there and she went out every evening and somtimes not coming home till the morning.

A letter arrived from a solicitor his partner had contacted asking him to leave the home for the sake of the children etc. etc. Had another chat with her, and he came back home. They agreed to sell the house, but then she said no she did not want to as she would not get a mortgage, he needs the house to be sold so he can have a place of his own. So he stayed home for a couple of weeks and saw it was going nowhere so he moved back in. It was on a friday night he got her phone and found out that she had been having an affair with another woman, who had been staying in the house while he was at mine.

Also when he found out the woman and his partner was upstairs int he bedroom in his bed, he lost it. You can imagine the scene, and all the build up of what had been going on since Christmas. Mayhem. He tried to bring the children back to my house but she stopped him, and only the 11 year old came home to me with my son. Never seen him in such a state. He went back in the early hours and woke her up, and tried to talk to her but she ridiculed him and another row started. He left - he never touched her at all. 6.30 the next morning the police arrived and told him he was being charged with common assault. He was ther till 10.30 that evening. He was released with no charge, no warning - nothing. Thursday the following week the Molestation Order arrived. This was the first time the police had been called.

Thank you for that Cassie and sorry for your very difficult circumstances.

Update

If your son were living at the property he shared ownership with his assumingly girlfriend, she would need to have got an Occupation Order. However, as he was living with you (and not at the property) an NMO was sufficient apparently. You say your son's partner, but they're not married by any chance are they? Your son's partner may be a lesbian (emotionally attracted to women, to use the legal term), or bi-sexual. Your son's reaction is normal if he temporarily lost it, ie he had lived with the woman whom he presumed was heterosexual and his intended 'for life' partner, who he also fathered 3 children to her. His reaction in my view is not a threat but he circumstantially acted out of his usual character.

Common assault is threatening behaviour where the other person believes he/ she is about to be struck, ie standing in a fight pose, angrily as though about to strike the other. Battery is where said conduct results in say a slap or punch. Common assault is very difficult to prove and there is likely bodily harm, ie a slap or punch resulting in some type of injury, ie assault and battery charge. This is all circumstantial evidence for a Non Molestation Order in my view. There is no threat to his partner, no threat to his children so NMO should have been easy to defend. It seems to me like his partner is in concert with her 'girl-friend' and possibly mother to take his home from him, possibly anyway.

[cassie53]

Re: What does this Mean?

Sorry, very emotive to write.

[Openlaw15]

Re: What does this Mean?

HI,
It is a long story. But she told him christmas eve she wanted him out so she could sort herself out. (They have three children). He went and came to my house, he is in bits (and stillis). She told him she wanted time - same old story. He had his suspicions but she denied anything was going on. He went to see CAB after about 6 weeks to see what he should do (he jointly owns the house with his partner, but the mother in law lives there as well - which did not help.) He looked after the kids - took the kids training, his eldest one is signed for a premier team under 12's, so he takes him two times a week to the training, and a again on a Saturday and he plays on a Sunday. There were rows between the two of them - on both sides, but I could see that my son would be worse as he was away from his children living at mine (not easy) and no signs of any improvement betweenthe two of them. CAB told him to go back home, as he was entitled to stay in his own home. Stayed there and she went out every evening and somtimes not coming home till the morning. A letter arrived from a solicitor his partner had contacted asking him to leave the home for the sake of the children etc. etc. Had another chat with her, and he came back home. They agreed to seel the house, but then she said no she did not want to as she would not get a mortgage, he needs the house to be sold so he can have a place of his own. So he stayed home for a couple of weeks and saw it was going nowhere so he moved back in. It was on a friday night he got her phone and found out that she had been having an affair with another woman, who had been staying in the house while he was at mine. Also when he found out the woman and his partner was upstairs int he bedroom in his bed, he lost it. You can imagine the scene, and all the build up of what had been going on since Christmas. Mayhem. He tried to bring the children back to my house but she stopped him, and only the 11 year old came home to me with my son. Never seen him in such a state. He went back in the early hours and woke her up, and tried to talk to her but she ridiculed him and another row started. He left - he never touched her at all. 6.30 the next morning the police arrived and told him he was being charged with common assault. He was ther till 10.30 that evening. He was released with no charge, no warning - nothing. Thursday the following week the Molestation Order arrived. This was the first time the police had been called.

Hello again Cassie

You still haven't actually said what the terms of the Undertaking is. I know it's an emotional thing for you, in your own time please provide the details. I am wondering whether the other woman/ girlfriend is putting ideas into your son's girlfriend's head. The Undertaking could affect your son's interest in his own property as any little type of thing to do with him contact her (girlfriend) or the children, she'll be on the phone to the police. What do the Undertaking's terms state about contact to see his children? Are his children named on the NMO/ Undertaking taking terms of the Order?

The other problem he'll have now is ownership issues so it may well be worth looking at this too. If it is a joint ownership it means she'll get half of the property. Did she pay for the deposit of the property, has she been contributing to it or paying the mortgage. What about the girlfriend's mother, she may have legal rights to occupy the property now. Joint ownership can be either a joint tenancy or tenancy in common. If it were a joint tenancy your son could sever it so that from this point on he and the girlfriend have 50% rights each to the property, ie they each have a tenancy in common. A joint tenancy also means if your son were to die the girlfriend would get the property automatically, so the law permits a severance of the joint tenancy, ie where relationships breakdown etc. So if your son has any Will with a gift (a term passing his interest in) of the property to a beneficiary (other than his girlfriend) it would not be ineffective/ a void gift.

[cassie53]

Re: What does this Mean?

HI
Thank you for helping.
It is joint ownership - 50/50. My son paid for the mortgage in January - he gave her £1100. Then Feb, he gave 600 pounds but since then has only paid 400 a month for the children. This was on the advice of the CAB to try and get her to sell. When the NMO was made he had been back at home about a week (in the hope it would force her to sell, plus he missed the kids so much). She put in her statement that her mum is helping her with keeping the house, that she could not get another mortgage, and that he earns enough to rent.

My son is self employed and missed loads of work with all of this, but when the month is normal he would bring home 2100. He pays the maintenance for the children, plus he has a 2800 overdraft at the bank, which they both spent, plus a barclaycard that he pays which is 2000 pounds, which again they both used. So he is paying all this back. He has no car, (they got a loan of 8000, but the car is registered to her, so he has no car). So getting his son from football and taking him of weekend - he uses my car.

He has a son of 11 who will have nothing to do with the new girlfriend, so spends alot of time with his dad and my house (which is about ten minute walkaway). From what I recall it was only that my son could only contact his partner re. access with the children. He was not to phone the children directly to arrange any visits etc. He would have the two youngest children every other weekend, and his eldest son, every Wednesday (where he would collect him from his football training) and he would stay the night. This has changed as the son is staying with us more and more, because he wants no contact with her new partner. Twice last week she threatened to slap his face, as he is of an age when he is answering back, and he knows more then he has ever told his dad.

My sons ex partner has asked him to collect the children on days that are not what was arranged on the day of the court hearing.

I am keeping a log of this, and I kept a log before when he was looking after the children as she was never there. She had him round the house last weekend putting up a pool for the children - I just don't know what to make of it all, plus dreading the knock on the door again. I keep telling him to keep away, but she just has to be nice to him and he does whatever she wants.

What is hard for my son to take is the girlfriend new partner. He does not want them near his children. I keep telling him that he cannot do anything about it, but the thought that she stays at his hourse. He is also furious that the mother is living at the house, the girlfriend can stay at the house - all living with what he worked hard to get. All living as normal with his children, yet he is not even allowed there.