Money owed by my ex husband

[rarrarrach]

Hello everyone,

Hopefully someone is able to help me.

I lent my boyfriend (at the time) a sum of £15,000 (£7,500 outstanding)....he admits in countless e-mails and various messages he owes the money.

In December 2012 we broke up and the payments stopped towards the balance, we had constant e-mails etc about him owing it which he admitted, we are now up to dicree Nisi.

We got married in August 2011 and I lent him the money in January 2011 (before the marriage).

If we go for a consent order (clean break agreement) and put it that there are no finances to be resolved through the marriage could I still take him to small claims for the remaining money owed as above because it was never part of the marriage?

He is never gonna agree to pay the £7,500 without me taking him to court so I want to know what my options are, I could cut my losses but its so much money in my eyes.

Thanks

R

[MissFM]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

Hello Rarrarrach and welcome!

I think you would have to make it a part of the divorce settlement (ie deduct it from his overall share of your joint assets). It would still be a clean break if neither of you are maintaining the other and there are no children - just that he would have to repay this loan as part of the settlement.

More clued-up Beagles will be along!

[labman]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

After Googling this and reading several sites, I concur with Miss FM that a clean break agreement sounds a good plan, and the loan repayment would need to be written into this when the court was making its order. This is a useful extract from one solicitor's website:

What is a clean break divorce?

A clean break divorce involves both parties agreeing to a Financial Clean Break Order once their divorce has been finalised. This is a court ordered financial settlement that ends all monetary claims between the spouses. All financial matters are settled at the time and neither party can make any further financial claims in the future. This allows both spouses to have a completely ‘clean break’ from each other, safe in the knowledge that, however their situation changes, their money will stay protected.


When is a clean break suitable?
We recommend a clean break order for all divorces, as there are different variations that can be negotiated to suit your particular circumstances. Whilst you may or may not have many assets currently, situations can always change – you could win the lottery or inherit a substantial amount of money. Without a Financial Clean Break Order your ex-partner could make a reasonable claim against your new assets, regardless of how long you have been separated.
Without a court order, any financial agreement you have reached is not enforceable, so, for example, if your former spouse has agreed to pay you a cash lump sum but doesn’t, you cannot compel them to pay without going to court to get an order which you can then enforce. You need a court order for financial certainty.

(taken from http://www.pannone.com/atoz/divorce/clean-break-divorce)

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

You may want to look at this article: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/e...-000-loan.html

^^^^Thanks to PlanB who posted this link elsewhere. :yo:

[labman]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

If we go for a consent order (clean break agreement) and put it that there are no finances to be resolved through the marriage could I still take him to small claims for the remaining money owed as above because it was never part of the marriage?

R

No. Once the clean break agreement is ordered, neither party can EVER take the other to court, other possibly than to enforce the clean break agreement if a sum was adjudged payable - it is what it says.

[MissFM]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

No. Once the clean break agreement is ordered, neither party can EVER take the other to court, other possibly than to enforce the clean break agreement if a sum was adjudged payable - it is what it says.

I think that there are exceptions to this rule of thumb, if it was a "long marriage" - but this one clearly wasn't:tinysmile_kiss_t4:

[PlanB]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

I lent my boyfriend (at the time) a sum of £15,000 (£7,500 outstanding)....he admits in countless e-mails and various messages he owes the money.

In December 2012 we broke up and the payments stopped towards the balance, we had constant e-mails etc about him owing it which he admitted, we are now up to dicree Nisi.

We got married in August 2011 and I lent him the money in January 2011 (before the marriage).

If we go for a consent order (clean break agreement) and put it that there are no finances to be resolved through the marriage could I still take him to small claims for the remaining money owed as above because it was never part of the marriage?

He is never gonna agree to pay the £7,500 without me taking him to court so I want to know what my options are

I think you'll find a clean break agreement does what it says on the tin. It means you effectively draw a line under everything financial at the time of the order and neither side can pursue the other for anything ever again. You need to check with a divorce lawyer but I can't see how you can take him to court for that loan once the consent order has been signed.

What was the loan for because that could be relevant? Was it to buy a car which you both drove, or to pay for exotic holidays which you enjoyed too, or to pay for something clearly distanced from you such as college course for him or to clear his debts?

I expect you could have issued him with a county court summons before you got your decree nisi, but check whether that's still an option now before you apply for the decree absolute. Who petitioned for the divorce because that will be the party who applies for the decree nisi and absolute? As far as I'm aware a court will not grant the decree absolute until a settlement has been reached or an order made by the court for any application for ancillary relief.

You were married for 16 months which a court will see as a short marriage even though it may have seemed like a lifetime to you. If there are no children then a court may decide you that should get minimal maintenance. It will probably cost you more than £7,500 in legal fees if you pursue this divorce through the courts. You've done the right thing in deciding on a clean break.

Have you considered mediation as a way to settle this financial issue? Divorcing couples are now legally obliged to try this before a court will step in http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...out-of-divorce

[labman]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

I think that there are exceptions to this rule of thumb, if it was a "long marriage" - but this one clearly wasn't:tinysmile_kiss_t4:

I don't think so, but as you know, I make no claims to know a lot about this sort of law. I did find the following extracts on reputable law sites on the internet though (I am assuming no children are involved):

Once a ‘clean break’ agreement of this kind has been ratified by court order, neither of you will be able to go back to court in the future to ask for maintenance or a further transfer of assets. This gives both partners a much greater degree of certainty and allows them to completely disentangle their individual financial affairs.



The main advantage of a clean break order is the certainty that this entails. Each spouse knows what has to be paid and when it ceases. This would therefore encourage independence as nothing could instigate court proceedings again.


I've not read anything to contradict these statements, but I could well be wrong - I often am!

[PlanB]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

Of course you can always take your ex to court in future if you found out that he was not being honest about his financial situation at the time you agreed the clean break. Has he already provided a sworn statement of his financial situation by way of a Form E 1 ? http://www.familylaw.co.uk/articles/FPRForm-E1

Be careful if you are managing your divorce on a DIY basis to save legal costs because it may end up costing you more in the long run. It may be worth paying for legal advice upfront even if you're not going down the court route

[PlanB]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

The other advantage of a clean break divorce is that it works both ways. If you were to win £10 million on the lottery the day after the consent order is signed your ex wouldn't be entitled to a penny I don't know anything about your age or circumstances but if you have a career ahead of you where your income may exceed his one day then without this clean break he could come after you for maintenance in future. Or if you remarried a wealthy man your ex could come after you for maintenance or get a reduction in any maintenance a court had ordered him to pay you because he would argue that you didn't need it anymore.

[labman]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

Of course you can always take your ex to court in future if you found out that he was not being honest about his financial situation at the time you agreed the clean break.

As said above, I make no claims to be an expert, but the extracts quoted by me above are all respected sites. In fact I think I read in the first reply something about not being able to go back to court as as well.

Here's another I've just found:

"A Clean Break Order will ensure that, following divorce, your ex-partner will not be able to submit a request through the Court for more money or assets. Once your Decree Nisi has been pronounced the Clean Break Order is filed and becomes a final binding Order on both you and your ex-partner. It is therefore preferable to obtain the Clean Break Order at either the same time, or as soon possible after commencing divorce proceedings.

The Clean Break Order is legally enforceable, unlike an amicable verbal agreement. The fact that you and your ex-partner may have reached an informal agreement will not guarantee that, should you come into money at a later date, your ex-partner wouldn’t try to get a little extra."

Taken from http://www.adamslaw.co.uk/blog/?p=393

I was rather taking a detailed interrogation of financial affairs for granted. The famous case of Rossi which even I have heard of proves the need for honesty. Under normal circumstances it is not possible to go back to court by the looks of things. If one of you is dishonest about things, the situation may change.

[PlanB]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

My divorce lasted longer than my marriage for that very reason msl:

[Inca]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

My (2nd ex) and I had a clean break divorce......he hasn't fulfilled his part because his crotch hasn't invaded by a plague of locusts, and all t'other nasty things I wished on him........but I'm reliably informed these things are unenforceable ,,mores the pity

[rarrarrach]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

I think you'll find a clean break agreement does what it says on the tin. It means you effectively draw a line under everything financial at the time of the order and neither side can pursue the other for anything ever again. You need to check with a divorce lawyer but I can't see how you can take him to court for that loan once the consent order has been signed.

What was the loan for because that could be relevant? Was it to buy a car which you both drove, or to pay for exotic holidays which you enjoyed too, or to pay for something clearly distanced from you such as college course for him or to clear his debts?

I expect you could have issued him with a county court summons before you got your decree nisi, but check whether that's still an option now before you apply for the decree absolute. Who petitioned for the divorce because that will be the party who applies for the decree nisi and absolute? As far as I'm aware a court will not grant the decree absolute until a settlement has been reached or an order made by the court for any application for ancillary relief.

You were married for 16 months which a court will see as a short marriage even though it may have seemed like a lifetime to you. If there are no children then a court may decide you that should get minimal maintenance. It will probably cost you more than £7,500 in legal fees if you pursue this divorce through the courts. You've done the right thing in deciding on a clean break.

Have you considered mediation as a way to settle this financial issue? Divorcing couples are now legally obliged to try this before a court will step in http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...out-of-divorce

WOW! Thank you all for your responses.

Ok a bit about me, I am a teacher, I was part of the pension for only 9 months of the marriage and couldn't afford to be part of it any longer because I was paying so much out in debt (all in my name but that he took out etc) and then there was this loan which he was paying for routinely in my bank each month which obviously stopped at the break-up. There are no children (thank god). The money I lent him was to pay off some of his debts and to buy him a car (I had my own).

I do have a new life where we will be so much better off when I've paid back the debt I had from the relationship, all of which was unsecured and in my name because he has a poor credit rating because he "went away" from his creditors for 6 years to get a lot of his debts wiped! (so I realise getting my money is limited anyway).

Basically I realise I'm not getting the full amount but I want to try and force him to give me something even if its £1000 paid over 6 months or something (could this be tagged into the clean break agreement like that?).

Hopefully that answers all that people have asked.

Thanks again for your responses.

R

[labman]

Re: Money owed by my ex husband

I know what I believe to be the answer to that. I'll wait and let either Plan B or Inca post first though, as they've both been through it and have had first hand experience of how the process works. I've only read about it. :beagle: