Any advice on police pension rights- abusive ex hubbie

[pickywicky]

Hi,

I’m based in Scotland and wonder if anyone has any experience of Scottish divorce settlements involving police pensions.

I’ll try to five a brief outline. I’m trying to help my friend who has just got out of an abusive marriage to a cop.

First off he’s a nasty piece of work outside of work and as it turns out also carried some of that through in his work. This is not about police hating, I worked for the police and
most officers are not like this.

Brief resume: they have married about 20’yrs been rogether longer. Have two daughters now 19 and 16yrs. Both worked shifts when they met, they agreed as he was a career police officer she shouldn be a stay at home mum until the girls were older and at school. One day out of the blue 10yrs ago he came home and told her that he had met someone else and he wanted a divorce. He sat her and their daughters down and told them he was putting the house on the market and they would need to find somewhere to live. Remember at that time she had no knowledge of her rights. He then went on to tell her it was ine of his junior officers he was involved with who was also married. He told her that he had had several affairs since they got married, all with serving officers,onevof them stayed nearby and my friend used to chat to most days.

Thats when I met her, she had got a part time job working with the police as support staff- it paid better than minimum wage. His cruelty on a day to day basis was staggeriing. She had no family support and thought she was going to be homeless. She knew that she could have apiken to his senior and reported some of his behaviour but was frightened that he would lose his job and she and her daughters would be even worse off. Anyway months later he changed his mind and begged her to give him another chance, she felt she had no option for her daughters sake and also for security.

Obviously things were never the same and over the course of the following years she got stronger and her daughters got older. She was in a slightly better financial position as she worked full time by then. She decided to leave him and told him so, by now he is a fairly senior police officer with ~£500k penion pot. Her pension pot was worth £32k. They owned their house albeit mortgaged. From the start he begged her nit to leave but became vwry nasty telling her she would never get a penny of his pension. She managed to scarape enough money up to rent a flat and moved out witth her daughters. He has dragged his heels the whole way. Pays virtually nothing for his younger daughtet.

Anyway to date the house has been sold, debts paid off and very little left. He has met someone else now and wants a duvirce, so the house and debts have been settled. He retires this year and according to her lawyer she is due £222k of his pension and he is due £16k of hers. So he owes her £206k. He gets his pension in September and apparently has told her that he could give her this in September but she will never see it. He can have it set aside until she is pensionable age, but if she dies before then it dies with er, so her kids would never see it. Also her lawyer has told her that if she doesn’t agree to this he can legally gift away his
money when he receives itand she will never get it.

So she’s between a rock and a hard place he’s now living with new partner and money is not a problem, he’s happy to string her along and bankrupt her. My friend earns about £20k per annum, pays rent and other bills. There is little left for lawyers fees, her lawyer charges £230 per hour.

Sorry about the long elegy - wanted to capture all the elements.

Can anyone shed any light on this- it seems incredibly unfair. Is her lawyer correct? He gets the money in September will
need to set it aside anyway if she agrees so he’s no better off. If she drags her heels he can ‘gift’ it away and she’ll never get it potentially.

[2222]

She is far better to have a pension share than to rely on him paying her. She will become a member of the pension scheme in her own right.

The amounts are so large and the pension scheme so complicated that she really should get advice from a pension expert, although she will have to pay for this. There are some wrinkles with the Police Pension Scheme, with the husband's pension value suddenly going up sharply when he reaches 30 years service. She wants 50% of the higher figure, obviously.

[2222]

We are past September, so your post is confusing. Do you mean 2019?

[pickywicky]

Yes September 2019.

[pickywicky]

He has 30yrs service in September 2019 and can retire with his pension then

[pickywicky]

The problem for her is she has no money, all her salary goes on rent and utilities and food for her and her daughters. No sign of that improving. He has plenty of money and can play games. She is also concerned that should anything happen to her the claim will die and their daughters get nothing. She hoping for a way to make him pay her the money so that she can buy a flat.

[2222]

But the pension value isn't cash he can just have. It's a valuation of his pension payable until he dies. He can only take a bit of it as a tax free lump sum. Yes, her share of that becomes a pension for her, and it is only payable whilst she lives, but she can take a bit of it as a lump sum. That's the nature of pensions, I'm afraid.

You can see more here https://www.yourpensionservice.org.u...-factsheet.pdf

There will be a big step up in the valuation of his pension in September 2019. Certainly tens of thousands of pounds, if not hundreds of thousands, and she needs expert advice on that, as I'm sure she does not want to throw her share of that away. I hear you that she can't afford advice, but she really can't afford to throw the extra pension value away either, can she?

To get an idea of the issue see https://barcankirby.co.uk/police-pensions-divorce/
That is based on English law. Scottish law is a bit different.

[pickywicky]

Thanks, she will get advice on the pension I think she is not getting the correct advice. She wasn’t told that she could take some of the pension as cash- just that ahe wouldn’t get any of it unril she was 60. He will get his police pension paid to him in September ‘19 when he retires along with a lump sum. So does that mean the same would be true for her. She will receive the pension at the same time, And may be able to get a small lump ?sum

[2222]

She gets her pension when she reaches age 60. It's explained in the first link I posted. She can also get a lump sum at that age.

[pickywicky]

Thank you for that. It was really helpful- she is much happier and going to speak to someone about pensions. She thinks the cetv that was done didn’t take into acoount the rise in value in Sept ‘19 when he retires.

[pickywicky]

Hi, can I ask another question? His cetv was carried out based on 27yrs service and he is still in service. So this won’t have included the big increase which will happen at retiral(30yrs service). His lawyer worked out my friends share based on the date they got married until the legal seperation, so will not have included any of the increased value in pension. I understand that from the date of legal seperationshe would have no claim on additional contributions he made, but her share must also mature. She can’t get the £200k just now and must wait until he retires so surely her share of the pension must also increase in value? Would this be correct? Thanks

[2222]

Hi, can I ask another question? His cetv was carried out based on 27yrs service and he is still in service. So this won’t have included the big increase which will happen at retiral(30yrs service). His lawyer worked out my friends share based on the date they got married until the legal seperation, so will not have included any of the increased value in pension. I understand that from the date of legal seperationshe would have no claim on additional contributions he made, but her share must also mature. She can’t get the £200k just now and must wait until he retires so surely her share of the pension must also increase in value? Would this be correct? Thanks

Not necessarily. She can get a bigger percentage of the current cetv as she won't get the uplift in value later. She really needs an actuary to do the calculations.

When he retires, he will take a lump sum. So, the cetv will be reduced by that, plus she would not be allowed a lump sum from her share. So if she waits until he retires she'll want to receive a share of any lump sum he takes, as well as a share of the cetv.

hope that's clear.

[pickywicky]

It is thank you very much

[2222]

Just by way of explanation, for future reference. The Police Pension Scheme 1987 has a normal pension age of 60. A member leaving without being entitled to an immediate retirement pension will get a deferred pension payable from age 60.

Once a member has completed 30 years service, he can retire and get a pension paid straight away, ie from age 50 if he joined the police at 20.

So, a member who leaves after say 29 years gets a pension based on that length of membership payable from 60. But, if he waits a year before leaving, he gets a slightly bigger pension (based on 30 years, not 29) but, importantly, payable straight away.

Obviously, a pension payable from say age 50 is much more valuable than the same pension only starting at 60. Equally obviously, Policemen know this, and they don't generally leave the force before completing 30 years, if they can help it.

When couples divorce they ask the pension scheme for a valuation of the pension, and this is always done by the scheme on the assumption the member leaves service immediately. If he has less than 30 years service at that point they value his pension as if it will be payable from age 60, even though the likelihood is that he will actually take his full pension much sooner than that.

That's the shortened version. For the full version, please refer to the scheme's documentation!

[pickywicky]

Thanks again