Child custody dispute

[leclerc]

Re: Child custody dispute

They do appear to scrape the barrel for things against me. While at her dads, the social worker drove to their house to take her out. They'd been out for an hour and on the way back him, the SW let my daughter call me. Obviously SW only heard one side of the conversation, but she would have heard my daughter being very stressed and still begging me if she could come home. They got to the house and my daughter ran upstairs still on the phone to me. I tried so hard to talk calmly to her, but knowing your child is dealing with this trauma day after day on her own and I can't help her is torture. Meantime, SW is chatting with dad then after about 10 minutes she went upstairs to say goodbye to M. M was still on the phone to me, but threw it on the bed. I stayed on the line innocently waiting for SW to leave then carried on talking to M. The next day, yesterday, she phoned and accused me of coaching M. I was really shocked and upset. They'd already been together for an hour, how on earth can I coach a child after the fact. It was not my intention and it will go against me on the section 37 report. I'm so upset and feel hopeless.

I think Diana M has covered this point but not sure if you have answered. Do you have contact with your daughter and is it supervised or unsupervised?
Furthermore, in regards to you coaching your daughter, the social worker heard only one side of the conversation and therefore you need to have an adequate response.
I am surprised that they came to the conclusion of emotional abuse but how did they come to that conclusion and what evidence did they allege?
Diana M, I understand what you are saying with regards to mental health issues on a public forum which OpenLaw15 has asked about but a bit more info might be pertinent to understand the emotional abuse bit, ie the history of an individual's life might explain their behaviour towards a child. At least, I hope that is where you are going.....

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

I
Diana M, I understand what you are saying with regards to mental health issues on a public forum which OpenLaw15 has asked about but a bit more info might be pertinent to understand the emotional abuse bit, ie the history of an individual's life might explain their behaviour towards a child.

I agree that the full history is appropriate in order to make suggestions on how to manage the current situation. I was simply taken aback at the bluntness of the question.

Daisy has already said in post #18 that she was the victim of mental and emotional abuse during her marriage and afterwards. She says she has given evidence of this to a solicitor who she hopes will take on her case. She's waiting to hear back from them.

She has also said that she has agreed to accept professional help for her issues and is truly sorry for her actions. That's a positive starting point.

Di

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

I think Diana M has covered this point but not sure if you have answered. Do you have contact with your daughter and is it supervised or unsupervised?
Furthermore, in regards to you coaching your daughter, the social worker heard only one side of the conversation and therefore you need to have an adequate response.
I am surprised that they came to the conclusion of emotional abuse but how did they come to that conclusion and what evidence did they allege?
Diana M, I understand what you are saying with regards to mental health issues on a public forum which OpenLaw15 has asked about but a bit more info might be pertinent to understand the emotional abuse bit, ie the history of an individual's life might explain their behaviour towards a child. At least, I hope that is where you are going.....

They, likely the SW, are accusing Daisy of 'emotional abuse which amounts to accusations of 'domestic violence,' as stated above at post # 44. Grams (2004) cites professionals' definition of violence as ".....causing psychological or emotional distress..." Until we have a better UK definition of 'emotional abuse,' which I haven't found as yet, the US case law is persuasive but not binding case law. What am saying is where Daisy speaks to her own child about the case is not 'domestic violence.' They - SW etc - will use any mental health issue/ problem (ie twist it) that Daisy has against her (Daisy) to stop her having any other relationship with her daughter except likely 'supervised contact rights.' What I am saying, through the case law I cited earlier it is simply an abuse of power for SW to treat Daisy this way. This is why I wanted to know the nature of Daisy's mental health. This is no different in criminal law (the way Daisy is being treated) where the prosecution takes into account irrelevant criminal convictions - it's called making an adverse inference.

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

I think, but am not sure because it's never been explained that the emotional abuse is me telling her I need her here with me to look after me. That going to her dads somehow leaves me in need. My daughter has said something along the lines of 'I can't leave my mum because she needs me'. This is an excuse she has used in the past as a way of getting out of visiting her dads. Inabsolutely do not need my daughter in this way. For one or two days, it is a welcome break. Not to be mean, but she doesn't do any chores. She doesn't even clean her room! So this accusation is clearly false.
This visit with her dad is unsupervised. He has totally isolated her. He has stopped all social media and she cannot leave the house on her own. This man is very intimidating. I remember when I met him, his son was about the same age as my daughter now. His son was clearly scared of him. What's happening is cruel and barbaric and I cannot believe this is happening. Especially since the SW appears to be siding with him.

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

I was never charged with criminal assault.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

I think, but am not sure because it's never been explained that the emotional abuse is me telling her I need her here with me to look after me. That going to her dads somehow leaves me in need. My daughter has said something along the lines of 'I can't leave my mum because she needs me'. This is an excuse she has used in the past as a way of getting out of visiting her dads. Inabsolutely do not need my daughter in this way. For one or two days, it is a welcome break. Not to be mean, but she doesn't do any chores. She doesn't even clean her room! So this accusation is clearly false.
This visit with her dad is unsupervised. He has totally isolated her. He has stopped all social media and she cannot leave the house on her own. This man is very intimidating. I remember when I met him, his son was about the same age as my daughter now. His son was clearly scared of him. What's happening is cruel and barbaric and I cannot believe this is happening. Especially since the SW appears to be siding with him.

Daisy, do you think the mental health problems you have (as you said you're under a mental health team), are being blamed for the SW apparently siding with the father of your 12 year old daughter? Is it the case that the SW is hearing 'mum needs me' from your daughter (during seeing the SW) so SW takes this, or twists this, to mean 'mother has told daughter that she needs her?' Is this what they are saying is 'emotional abuse.' The law is that it must be a fact and not an assumption of any type of 'significant harm.' It sounds like to me - unless you say different - that the SW is making assumptions and not relying on factual evidence.

- - - Updated - - -

I was never charged with criminal assault.

Yes Daisy, am just saying the state (ie authorities), ie SW can be very unfair, so I used an criminal law example. I am not saying you were charged with criminal assault. However, the fact you haven't is good for you.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

They do appear to scrape the barrel for things against me. While at her dads, the social worker drove to their house to take her out. They'd been out for an hour and on the way back him, the SW let my daughter call me. Obviously SW only heard one side of the conversation, but she would have heard my daughter being very stressed and still begging me if she could come home. They got to the house and my daughter ran upstairs still on the phone to me. I tried so hard to talk calmly to her, but knowing your child is dealing with this trauma day after day on her own and I can't help her is torture. Meantime, SW is chatting with dad then after about 10 minutes she went upstairs to say goodbye to M. M was still on the phone to me, but threw it on the bed. I stayed on the line innocently waiting for SW to leave then carried on talking to M. The next day, yesterday, she phoned and accused me of coaching M. I was really shocked and upset. They'd already been together for an hour, how on earth can I coach a child after the fact. It was not my intention and it will go against me on the section 37 report. I'm so upset and feel hopeless.

Your solicitor should pull them up on the section 37 report's content where parts are not factual. Please do not feel hopeless, Daisy, we're in your corner .

[leclerc]

Re: Child custody dispute

[MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION], I have some reading for you re UK definitions rather than US definitions albeit it's a UK government publication but in this case page 85 onwards might be relevant: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...g_Capacity.pdf

in fact page 89 "children trying to help" might be pertinent in this case.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

@Openlaw15, I have some reading for you re UK definitions rather than US definitions albeit it's a UK government publication but in this case page 85 onwards might be relevant: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...g_Capacity.pdf

in fact page 89 "children trying to help" might be pertinent in this case.

I did look at it and it does suggest that children can be influenced, ie to try and repair broken down relationships. However, this is just suggestion and not the law. From other thesis I've been reading, emotional abuse is hard to prove according to CAFCASS and legal professionals, ie barristers. The point is though, if it is hard to prove then why is the SW in the Daisy's case saying it's 'emotional abuse', is the question. I think emotional abuse were it to go on would speak for itself, but speaking to a curious minded intelligent child about the case, by itself anyway, is not and can never be 'emotional abuse.'

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

Thank you.

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

I don't have a solicitor 😔

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

I don't have a solicitor 

But you have approached a solicitor who has asked you for the background of any abuse you may have suffered during your marriage and beyond (which you have provided) in the hope that Legal Aid may be granted.

Call the firm tomorrow for an update.

Di x

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Hi thank you for accepting my request
I'm currently going through a custody case for my 12 yo daughter. She is on the child protection register because I hit her on a couple of occasions (once with an implement) although it happened twice, it is very rare for me to be physical with her, but she did push me to the limit....also we were going through a very tough time. My ex husband now wants residency and has a very spiteful lawyer. The first hearing was with a very understanding judge who saw things for what they are and ordered a section 7, but the second hearing was with a judge who seemed to be echoing my ex's lawyer and wants a section 37. Now I am very scared. I have no legal representation. I am up to my ears in paperwork and feel railroaded. Has anyone got any advice for me??

Hello again, Daisy

Hope you're at least having an OK day. I have found a guide to help where you don't have a lawyer, for child arrangement orders (formerly called Child Contact Orders). It is detailed but it may be good for asking your lawyer (when you get one) about what to ask them, or help you as to what you can do in your situation. However, for whatever reason if you can't get a lawyer, you can use it anyway as it's apparently provided for that purpose. Keep us updated as to the lawyer situation.

http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/h...ut-help-lawyer

OL (ie Openlaw)

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Hi thank you for accepting my request
I'm currently going through a custody case for my 12 yo daughter. She is on the child protection register because I hit her on a couple of occasions (once with an implement) although it happened twice, it is very rare for me to be physical with her, but she did push me to the limit....also we were going through a very tough time. My ex husband now wants residency and has a very spiteful lawyer. The first hearing was with a very understanding judge who saw things for what they are and ordered a section 7, but the second hearing was with a judge who seemed to be echoing my ex's lawyer and wants a section 37. Now I am very scared. I have no legal representation. I am up to my ears in paperwork and feel railroaded. Has anyone got any advice for me??

Normally, legal aid is not available for Child Arrangement Order (formerly named, Child Contact Orders), but could be for where you were domestically abused: https://www.gov.uk/legal-aid/domestic-abuse-or-violence, You told us you suffered domestic abuse during your marriage, so this may support your application for legal aid, as Di suggests below. Can you provide some specifics as any lawyer who takes an interest in your case will not be able to do so unless they can show clear evidence of 'domestic abuse' for legal aid purposes. Did you for example have any friends who witnessed this abuse such as controlling behaviour, assault on you, or other things. How long were you married for, and how long did the domestic abuse continue? Were they regular, were they more worse and prolonged at other times. Did you have photographs of injuries etc. Is your mental health linked to or made worse by your domestic abuse/ suffering. These are just questions to help you think about proving your evidence of domestic abuse.

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

I provided all that last Monday. Yesterday I phoned to see if they could help me and they still haven't called back. If I don't hear today, I will return to the court to see one of the duty solicitors. I wonder if it's possible to speak with a judge to get the order overturned. My daughter is so unhappy and the guardian is aware of that??