Child custody dispute

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

They do appear to scrape the barrel for things against me. While at her dads, the social worker drove to their house to take her out. They'd been out for an hour and on the way back him, the SW let my daughter call me. Obviously SW only heard one side of the conversation, but she would have heard my daughter being very stressed and still begging me if she could come home. They got to the house and my daughter ran upstairs still on the phone to me. I tried so hard to talk calmly to her, but knowing your child is dealing with this trauma day after day on her own and I can't help her is torture. Meantime, SW is chatting with dad then after about 10 minutes she went upstairs to say goodbye to M. M was still on the phone to me, but threw it on the bed. I stayed on the line innocently waiting for SW to leave then carried on talking to M. The next day, yesterday, she phoned and accused me of coaching M. I was really shocked and upset. They'd already been together for an hour, how on earth can I coach a child after the fact. It was not my intention and it will go against me on the section 37 report. I'm so upset and feel hopeless.

Your solicitor should pull them up on the section 37 report's content where parts are not factual. Please do not feel hopeless, Daisy, we're in your corner .

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

I think, but am not sure because it's never been explained that the emotional abuse is me telling her I need her here with me to look after me. That going to her dads somehow leaves me in need. My daughter has said something along the lines of 'I can't leave my mum because she needs me'. This is an excuse she has used in the past as a way of getting out of visiting her dads. Inabsolutely do not need my daughter in this way. For one or two days, it is a welcome break. Not to be mean, but she doesn't do any chores. She doesn't even clean her room! So this accusation is clearly false.
This visit with her dad is unsupervised. He has totally isolated her. He has stopped all social media and she cannot leave the house on her own. This man is very intimidating. I remember when I met him, his son was about the same age as my daughter now. His son was clearly scared of him. What's happening is cruel and barbaric and I cannot believe this is happening. Especially since the SW appears to be siding with him.

Daisy, do you think the mental health problems you have (as you said you're under a mental health team), are being blamed for the SW apparently siding with the father of your 12 year old daughter? Is it the case that the SW is hearing 'mum needs me' from your daughter (during seeing the SW) so SW takes this, or twists this, to mean 'mother has told daughter that she needs her?' Is this what they are saying is 'emotional abuse.' The law is that it must be a fact and not an assumption of any type of 'significant harm.' It sounds like to me - unless you say different - that the SW is making assumptions and not relying on factual evidence.

- - - Updated - - -

I was never charged with criminal assault.

Yes Daisy, am just saying the state (ie authorities), ie SW can be very unfair, so I used an criminal law example. I am not saying you were charged with criminal assault. However, the fact you haven't is good for you.

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

I was never charged with criminal assault.

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

I think, but am not sure because it's never been explained that the emotional abuse is me telling her I need her here with me to look after me. That going to her dads somehow leaves me in need. My daughter has said something along the lines of 'I can't leave my mum because she needs me'. This is an excuse she has used in the past as a way of getting out of visiting her dads. Inabsolutely do not need my daughter in this way. For one or two days, it is a welcome break. Not to be mean, but she doesn't do any chores. She doesn't even clean her room! So this accusation is clearly false.
This visit with her dad is unsupervised. He has totally isolated her. He has stopped all social media and she cannot leave the house on her own. This man is very intimidating. I remember when I met him, his son was about the same age as my daughter now. His son was clearly scared of him. What's happening is cruel and barbaric and I cannot believe this is happening. Especially since the SW appears to be siding with him.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

I think Diana M has covered this point but not sure if you have answered. Do you have contact with your daughter and is it supervised or unsupervised?
Furthermore, in regards to you coaching your daughter, the social worker heard only one side of the conversation and therefore you need to have an adequate response.
I am surprised that they came to the conclusion of emotional abuse but how did they come to that conclusion and what evidence did they allege?
Diana M, I understand what you are saying with regards to mental health issues on a public forum which OpenLaw15 has asked about but a bit more info might be pertinent to understand the emotional abuse bit, ie the history of an individual's life might explain their behaviour towards a child. At least, I hope that is where you are going.....

They, likely the SW, are accusing Daisy of 'emotional abuse which amounts to accusations of 'domestic violence,' as stated above at post # 44. Grams (2004) cites professionals' definition of violence as ".....causing psychological or emotional distress..." Until we have a better UK definition of 'emotional abuse,' which I haven't found as yet, the US case law is persuasive but not binding case law. What am saying is where Daisy speaks to her own child about the case is not 'domestic violence.' They - SW etc - will use any mental health issue/ problem (ie twist it) that Daisy has against her (Daisy) to stop her having any other relationship with her daughter except likely 'supervised contact rights.' What I am saying, through the case law I cited earlier it is simply an abuse of power for SW to treat Daisy this way. This is why I wanted to know the nature of Daisy's mental health. This is no different in criminal law (the way Daisy is being treated) where the prosecution takes into account irrelevant criminal convictions - it's called making an adverse inference.

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

I
Diana M, I understand what you are saying with regards to mental health issues on a public forum which OpenLaw15 has asked about but a bit more info might be pertinent to understand the emotional abuse bit, ie the history of an individual's life might explain their behaviour towards a child.

I agree that the full history is appropriate in order to make suggestions on how to manage the current situation. I was simply taken aback at the bluntness of the question.

Daisy has already said in post #18 that she was the victim of mental and emotional abuse during her marriage and afterwards. She says she has given evidence of this to a solicitor who she hopes will take on her case. She's waiting to hear back from them.

She has also said that she has agreed to accept professional help for her issues and is truly sorry for her actions. That's a positive starting point.

Di

[leclerc]

Re: Child custody dispute

They do appear to scrape the barrel for things against me. While at her dads, the social worker drove to their house to take her out. They'd been out for an hour and on the way back him, the SW let my daughter call me. Obviously SW only heard one side of the conversation, but she would have heard my daughter being very stressed and still begging me if she could come home. They got to the house and my daughter ran upstairs still on the phone to me. I tried so hard to talk calmly to her, but knowing your child is dealing with this trauma day after day on her own and I can't help her is torture. Meantime, SW is chatting with dad then after about 10 minutes she went upstairs to say goodbye to M. M was still on the phone to me, but threw it on the bed. I stayed on the line innocently waiting for SW to leave then carried on talking to M. The next day, yesterday, she phoned and accused me of coaching M. I was really shocked and upset. They'd already been together for an hour, how on earth can I coach a child after the fact. It was not my intention and it will go against me on the section 37 report. I'm so upset and feel hopeless.

I think Diana M has covered this point but not sure if you have answered. Do you have contact with your daughter and is it supervised or unsupervised?
Furthermore, in regards to you coaching your daughter, the social worker heard only one side of the conversation and therefore you need to have an adequate response.
I am surprised that they came to the conclusion of emotional abuse but how did they come to that conclusion and what evidence did they allege?
Diana M, I understand what you are saying with regards to mental health issues on a public forum which OpenLaw15 has asked about but a bit more info might be pertinent to understand the emotional abuse bit, ie the history of an individual's life might explain their behaviour towards a child. At least, I hope that is where you are going.....

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

I'm so upset and feel hopeless.

Of course you feel hopeless. I would too. But that doesn't necessarily mean your situation is forever hopeless even if there are some blips along the way.

Children are resilient but they can also be fickle (well at least mine was). They also sometimes aim to please when there's tension in the air. Some will play one parent off against the other.

But what I've learned (as a divorced parent) is that it all comes together eventually.

Hang on in there.

Di x

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Is that really neceassy on a public forum?

Di

Di, if you're in practice and you're interested in court appointed staff including SW either abusing or misunderstanding their power, the following article is an excellent insight into things. This comes from a US attorney experienced in family law. However, especially female lawyers cannot be emotional - as they simply wouldn't be in the man's profession (equality issues are very prominent in the USA), so they do not label persons or use emotive language. Rather things are explained objectively; however, if you were to take the reigns off the lawyers imagine what they really would say.

Grams, M. (2004), 'GUARDIANS AD LITEM AND THE CYCLE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE': HOW THE RECOMMENDATIONS TURN; Law & Inequality: A Journal of Theory and Practice. Minnesota, USA. Citation: 22 LAWINEQ 105.

From the cases I have had access to in the English Legal System, defining 'emotional abuse' is as broad as it is long. There is no definitive explanation of 'emotional abuse' and without it, SW can easily misunderstand or abuse their powers.

However the American legal system's experts have defined it. The main features of 'emotional abuse' is that it is linked to 'domestic violence.' "Domestic violence is defined as "the occurrence of violence, coercion, or intimidation by a family or household member against another family or household member. [FN103] Acts of violence can include: attempting to inflict or inflicting physical harm; placing a person in fear of physical harm; causing psychological or emotional distress; and depriving a family member of access to family funds:" Grams (2004) cites other experts' views.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Is that really neceassy on a public forum?

Di

Di,

SW and other court appointed staff abuse their powers, emotional abuse is a serious thing to blame a parent of doing. Even if a parent cried in a court room because of stress, the out of touch court/ SW would unfairly view this as 'emotional person/ personality' and therefore not fit to raise the child. The fact that this is situation specific and not substantively affective in the mother's daily life for instance is either here nor there to family courts or SW. I am being very reserved with the labels/ adjectives I could be using for SW, for a purpose. This is why am asking the questions that am asking.

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

They do appear to scrape the barrel for things against me. While at her dads, the social worker drove to their house to take her out. They'd been out for an hour and on the way back him, the SW let my daughter call me. Obviously SW only heard one side of the conversation, but she would have heard my daughter being very stressed and still begging me if she could come home. They got to the house and my daughter ran upstairs still on the phone to me. I tried so hard to talk calmly to her, but knowing your child is dealing with this trauma day after day on her own and I can't help her is torture. Meantime, SW is chatting with dad then after about 10 minutes she went upstairs to say goodbye to M. M was still on the phone to me, but threw it on the bed. I stayed on the line innocently waiting for SW to leave then carried on talking to M. The next day, yesterday, she phoned and accused me of coaching M. I was really shocked and upset. They'd already been together for an hour, how on earth can I coach a child after the fact. It was not my intention and it will go against me on the section 37 report. I'm so upset and feel hopeless.

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

please give some more detail as to the mental health team aspect and your apparent emotional problems.

Is that really neceassy on a public forum?

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

The judge hasn't asked me to have therapy, but she is aware that I'm being seen by a mental health team. I've been put forward for a course with regards to my emotions. My daughter absolutely does not want to stay with her father. She feels trapped and isolated at his house. I only hope this (and my willingness to receive help) is enough for the judge.

I hope that too

Di x

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

The judge hasn't asked me to have therapy, but she is aware that I'm being seen by a mental health team. I've been put forward for a course with regards to my emotions. My daughter absolutely does not want to stay with her father. She feels trapped and isolated at his house. I only hope this (and my willingness to receive help) is enough for the judge.

please give some more detail as to the mental health team aspect and your apparent emotional problems.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

I know I know.

But I was making the point that until or unless Daisy is charged with a criminal offence which I doubt (albeit I have not seen the paperwork of this case) the issue of criminal law and copious case law is not relevant.

Di

the cases I quoted are family law precedent cases and principles, they're very relevant for 'significant harm and for checks and balances of the social workers' powers.