Child custody dispute

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

CAFCASS was against me in the end. I lost the battle. Thanks for all your help and advice. Can anyone tell me if I can appeal

I'm sorry to hear this Daisy.

You've previously said that you've finally got solicitors to help you so why not ask them what your next legal step should be.

Di

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

Hi. CAFCASS was against me in the end. I lost the battle. Thanks for all your help and advice. Can anyone tell me if I can appeal

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Just to let you all know, I have legal representation. This came as a surprise to me after telling the cafcass lady who I've been trying to get(without success) Helen (cafcass) told me she often works with that particular solicitor. Suddenly two days ago they just phoned me up and told me they'd take my case, no more questions asked. So, I was feeling quite positive Untill this morning when the social worker gave me the section 37 report. She has recommended that my daughter go live with her dad. I went into panick mode and took the report to the solicitor. They are currently trying to get my daughter a hearing with the judge. What is the likelihood of the judge listening to my daughter over the social worker?

Daisy this is simply brilliant news. Your daughter's lawyer and your solicitor will ensure that your daughter is heard before the family court judge, and hopefully these lawyers will ensure that justice is carried out. I have provided the information below to relieve you that the social worker's section 37 report in a private law hearing (ie custody) is only persuasive and other important matters are considered, ie your rights and your daughter's opinion are very important as to whom she wants to live with.

You still have your right to fact finding hearing to prove the allegations of domestic abuse, which includes emotional abuse allegations, as per 12J of the Child Arrangement issue: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/practice_directions/pd_part_12j

According to relevant family procedure rules: para. 30 at 12J, the social worker's s.37 report where applicable is considered at the end of a fact-finding hearing: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/practice_directions/pd_part_12j The SW is not a family court expert as in a professional such as a doctor or psychiatrist, or other child expert: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/practice_directions/practice-direction-25c-children-proceedings-the-use-of-single-joint-experts-and-the-process-leading-to-an-expert-being-instructed-or-expert-evidence-being-put-before-the-court, so their (SW) comments are not as qualified as these professionals.

Furthermore, a local authority (Suffolk Council) provides some guidance for social worker's use of section 37 reports to be used in a private hearing (such as yours), which includes a 'welfare tests;' they (SW) must tell the court why they're not recommending a care order etc (see Suffolk Council guide below). If the SW's report says that a care order or emergency order etc is not required, your child's lawyer (Guardian) using their own powers ( http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/parts/part_16 and, http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/practice_directions/pd_part_16a ), or you own solicitor acting for you, can challenge the SW for the benefit of your daughter's best interests. For instance, if no care order application is being made then the section 37 report of harm may not be fair. CAFCASS already has the duty to complete a section 7 report and this should adequately serve the court's interest.

A section 37 report usually requires a direction from the court: see also Suffolk Council guide in particular the 37 report content/ detail, titled "The Report" at page 5: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&u act=8&ved=0ahUKEwifruWTr-HOAhXLIMAKHYRtBnUQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpandp.s uffolkcc.gov.uk%2Fredirect.aspx%3FrID%3D0900271180 ce3a3b%26qry%3DFreeTxtPhrase~~&usg=AFQjCNGuNgyB6Tk iWQiuiOlKbzkLCq0odw&sig2=jDW2dtiwrIQjZgTLkbl2lw&bv m=bv.131286987,d.d24

[Crazy council]

Re: Child custody dispute

They will listen, and there's things like her opinion and schooling that they will consider.

I would also suggest, pushing the social workers to help you get over any problems they have identified, hopefully, you will see a significant difference now you have a solicitor representing you. It shouldn't really be like that, but it is.

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

She didn't return to him, she refused to go saying the CAFCASS officer told her she didn't have to go. How likely is it that the judge will go with that recommendation if CAFCASS is saying opposite??

[Crazy council]

Re: Child custody dispute

Hi

The judge will listen to you and the solicitor, and the report can be countered ( been there ). Have the social workers offered you any help or solutions for any issues they have in the report. .

This is a case that went on around my area that the judge went against the report and ripped into the social workers.
http://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co....latest-stories

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

What good news about the solicitor!

I can understand your panic at learning the Social Worker recommended your daughter should live with her Dad. But now you have legal representation you will at least have the tools to deal with this.

Will your daughter still be returning to you at the end of the school holidays?

Di

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

Just to let you all know, I have legal representation. This came as a surprise to me after telling the cafcass lady who I've been trying to get(without success) Helen (cafcass) told me she often works with that particular solicitor. Suddenly two days ago they just phoned me up and told me they'd take my case, no more questions asked. So, I was feeling quite positive Untill this morning when the social worker gave me the section 37 report. She has recommended that my daughter go live with her dad. I went into panick mode and took the report to the solicitor. They are currently trying to get my daughter a hearing with the judge. What is the likelihood of the judge listening to my daughter over the social worker?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Hi. I'm 47. I'm a good mum. I don't do anything in my life that I wouldn't want her to see. She is a happy, healthy, bright and beautiful girl. She has a very good circle of friends and is a sensible girl. I praise her at every opportunity. I encourage her and I advise her well. She is loving and funny and she knows her own mind. What happened with the curtain pole was a freak occurrence. It's the only time in my whole life that I've used something to hit someone with. The other two incidences were with my hand and left no bruises. These happened at a time of fear and confusion. I was being forced to send her to a place where groups of girls were telling her to kill herself. I had no way out and I was very scared. There have been many times since February that she has been equally horrific, but I've walked away from her. I actually find it quite easy to walk away from her or give her the cold shoulder Untill she apologised or redeems herself. My mental diagnosis is depression and low mood, but is under control with medication.
My home is modern and clean and her bedroom is newly decorated. All my daughters needs are met. She sees the opticians and dentist regularly and she sees the GP when she needs to. Her diet and weight are healthy.

The SW will argue that your 'psychiatric problems' will interfere in your ability to raises your daughter. Now, turn this around and ask the social worker to define what she means by 'psychiatric.' You can refer to the International Classification of Diseases (ICD, version 10) for specifics. Mental health problems are psychiatric but so are psychopathic personalities and other dangerous personalities to society (people), so they are not the same thing, clearly. The spectrum of ICD varies from psychopaths to the more common situational-specific 'anxiety/ depression etc. Then when you have defined psychiatric for her (SW), ask her to apply the facts to yourself. This is where the SW will look incompetent.

Keep referring to sources....refer to evidence for Family Procedure Rules. Stay objective, be courteous, smile, say please, thank you when you're communicating with the SW whilst they're providing oral evidence. Ask your questions to the SW or CAFCASS officer (where applicable) in an open way, do not 'ask leading questions. Do not react emotionally - think of someone else in your shoes who is not you before you answer as this person is not emotionally affected so will not react with emotion impulsively. A leading question is noted because it's often unfair and directs the respondent using only the information provide to purposely limit their answer (ie like sending someone down a no entry). Leading question: 'As a SW, isn't it true that you have no interest in my daughter living with me and just have your own personal vendetta against me?' Wouldn't you say.. leading.. Can you please tell me, probably not leading. In your own words.. likely not leading. May I ask why you believe....likely not leading.

Try not to ask open ended questions either if you just require a simple yes or no. Open ended: 'what evidence does the state have that I have 'allegedly' domestically abused M?' Closed question: Answering a simple yes or no, have you or has any one else actually witnessed myself abusing M on any occasion other than what you 'perceive' (means her own view, not actual with everyone one else) as the alleged incidents that the court already knows about?

When you answer a question and you know it's not fair, you could either answer it broadly or avoid the question. SW question: 'Daisy, I know you 'seem' to love your daughter, but let's face it even one or two incidents of abuse prove otherwise, doesn't it? Daisy says: 'Well this court is here to make a determination as to whether a person where they're 'accused' of 'domestic abuse' has done what 'you' view as that very thing. Alternatively, Daisy says, domestic abuse is seemingly very broad so the state 'could' easily misinterpret 'domestic abuse' for reasonable chastisement, in general of course, which is a right for the natural free citizen in this country. SW: no, Daisy, you know full well I was talking about you and not everybody else.' Daisy says, 'oh well in that case, it's for the court based on the provisions of 12J., to decide that as I am clearly not qualified to answer that question as the court wouldn't want self to provide incriminate evidence.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Hi. I'm 47. I'm a good mum. I don't do anything in my life that I wouldn't want her to see. She is a happy, healthy, bright and beautiful girl. She has a very good circle of friends and is a sensible girl. I praise her at every opportunity. I encourage her and I advise her well. She is loving and funny and she knows her own mind. What happened with the curtain pole was a freak occurrence. It's the only time in my whole life that I've used something to hit someone with. The other two incidences were with my hand and left no bruises. These happened at a time of fear and confusion. I was being forced to send her to a place where groups of girls were telling her to kill herself. I had no way out and I was very scared. There have been many times since February that she has been equally horrific, but I've walked away from her. I actually find it quite easy to walk away from her or give her the cold shoulder Untill she apologised or redeems herself. My mental diagnosis is depression and low mood, but is under control with medication.
My home is modern and clean and her bedroom is newly decorated. All my daughters needs are met. She sees the opticians and dentist regularly and she sees the GP when she needs to. Her diet and weight are healthy.

This is brilliant, because this is what you're going to say at your 'domestic abuse' hearing. You are a woman with 'life experience' who knows how to look after her daughter, ie you're not a young girl who doesn't know what she's doing. You simply made a mistake when the pole accidentally hit M. It was simply an isolated incident besides M also falling back on to the door frame. This is 'circumstantial' and is not evidence of abuse. It was unforeseeable, to you, that M would have fallen back against the door frame and had you known it would or could have happened, you would have prevented it. Do not admit to 'domestic abuse' on no occasion from now on.

Daisy, have you completed your own statement yet for the court? You and M (your daughter) both need a written statement in my view, as you both need to be prepared well in advance. So in my view you should both write some stuff on paper, but concentrate on your good points as a mother. Lawyers are likely to coach their client for hearings of these type but since you don't have one, you need to practice your version of events. Good practice and to stop any claims by the court or SW of a conflict of interest arising, in my view, is for M to produce her own statement with assistance only from her guardian/ legal representative. So, M should ask her guardian to assist her to complete a written statement of what she is going to say. With 12J, M's legal representative should make sure that M in the judge's chambers (office) is familiar with the questions that he/ she (the judge) is going to ask her. Do not let M see write your statement. This way, you're showing the court that you're not 'emotionally manipulative' or emotionally abusive. You will be cross examined at the hearing as the social worker does not want to be seen as not doing a good job or unfairly making allegations of domestic abuse against you, as their (SW) view you are guilty already. This is what you need to tell the domestic abuse hearing. You need to start thinking like a lawyer if you don't have one already. Start pulling apart SW report when you get your copy of it. You want a copy of every single report or question that is going to be asked. You are a litigant in person (self represented) at this time. You can ask a good friend to help you. A McKenzie friend - that you pay for - may not be anywhere near your own ability to representative yourself.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Daisy, if you find any questions put to you on this thread intrusive or unsettling you can feel free not to answer them. You are not being cross-examined. Your age is definitely not relevant!

Your ability as a mother is also not in doubt especially since none of us know the full history.

Your daughter is home today which is what matters most to you.

Have a lovely weekend

Di

Di

I totally agree with you in that Daisy can leave out anything she doesn't want to say. This is why I ask for the age broadly, just to provide an idea what the social worker sees. For instance, a younger mum were Daisy to have had her younger may be presumed to be too young and inexperienced.

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

Daisy, if you find any questions put to you on this thread intrusive or unsettling you can feel free not to answer them. You are not being cross-examined. Your age is definitely not relevant!

Your ability as a mother is also not in doubt especially since none of us know the full history.

Your daughter is home today which is what matters most to you.

Have a lovely weekend

Di

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

Hi. I'm 47. I'm a good mum. I don't do anything in my life that I wouldn't want her to see. She is a happy, healthy, bright and beautiful girl. She has a very good circle of friends and is a sensible girl. I praise her at every opportunity. I encourage her and I advise her well. She is loving and funny and she knows her own mind. What happened with the curtain pole was a freak occurrence. It's the only time in my whole life that I've used something to hit someone with. The other two incidences were with my hand and left no bruises. These happened at a time of fear and confusion. I was being forced to send her to a place where groups of girls were telling her to kill herself. I had no way out and I was very scared. There have been many times since February that she has been equally horrific, but I've walked away from her. I actually find it quite easy to walk away from her or give her the cold shoulder Untill she apologised or redeems herself. My mental diagnosis is depression and low mood, but is under control with medication.
My home is modern and clean and her bedroom is newly decorated. All my daughters needs are met. She sees the opticians and dentist regularly and she sees the GP when she needs to. Her diet and weight are healthy.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Thank you for your honesty. I will take any help that comes my way. I haven't touched my daughter since February and am receiving help from the psychiatric hospital for my emotions.

Before February 2016, when was the last time you touched your daughter? If your daughter played up again, how exactly would you deal with it, assuming the facts were similar to last time? This is what the court is likely to look at, ie your ability to manage your reactions to M's volatile behaviour. M may be that way because of her seeing you domestically abused during your marriage. It may not be her fault that M is 'naughty,' therefore. Which recommendations, if any, has the psychiatric hospital made for your custody issue? I want to get an idea of what the social worker sees when she sees you and the home you provide for you and your daughter. Without knowing some details it's difficult to provide specific advice. Daisy, have you been diagnosed with a mental health condition in particular? May I ask your age broadly - for instance are you in the age brackets (30-40 years), young or older?

[Daisyberwick]

Re: Child custody dispute

Thank you for your honesty. I will take any help that comes my way. I haven't touched my daughter since February and am receiving help from the psychiatric hospital for my emotions.