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Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

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  • #31
    Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

    I've got some more info too, from a FOI request - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...%20VTR1163.pdf
    Your request:
    Please supply the following information.
    (1) When an ex-partner leaves the UK taking the child with them to a country wherethe CSA has no jurisdiction the case is then closed?
    Our response
    The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission (the Commission) took overresponsibility for the Child Support Agency (CSA) from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) on 1 November 2008.
    Response 1
    The Commission’s jurisdiction in relation to the statutory child maintenance schemesis defined by section 44 of the Child Support Act 19911. Section 44 requires that the parent with care, qualifying child and the non-resident parent involved in a child maintenance case are “habitually resident in the United Kingdom”. The Commissiondoes not have jurisdiction to assess an application or to continue to charge ongoingmaintenance once it is notified that any of the relevant parties have ceased residingin the country.

    In situations where a parent with care and the child(ren) move abroad, theCommission does not have the jurisdiction to pursue ongoing child maintenance payments but it does have the power to pursue any arrears owed .

    While it will vary from case to case, on some occasions the Commission may be able to take enforcement action in respect of any assets in the UK belonging to the non-resident parent, such as imposing a charging order against any property in the UK. Debt collection agencies used by the Commission collect historic arrears rather than ongoing child maintenance payments.

    Outside of the Commission’s jurisdiction, parents with care living abroad might beable to use Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders (REMO) to enforce child maintenance orders. REMO is the process by which maintenance orders made by UK courts, on behalf of UK residents, can be registered and enforced by courts orother authorities in other countries against people resident there.

    This is a reciprocal arrangement governed by international conventions, whichmeans that foreign maintenance orders in favour of individuals abroad can likewisebe registered and enforced by UK courts against UK residents; or a maintenanceclaim by an individual abroad established in this country.

    If a parent with care and the child(ren) live abroad and the non-resident parent lives in the UK, the parent with care may apply through their own government or legal system if that country is a signatory to a relevant international convention. The precise nature of reciprocity available between the UK and another jurisdiction depends on the convention or agreement to which the other country is a signatory.
    so ... by the looks of it, if there is no convention/agreement in place between the UK and the country the mother and child live in I think there would not be much she can do.
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

    ~~~~~

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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    • #32
      Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

      and further on the polygamy issue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_polygamy
      United Kingdom: Foreign polygamous marriages grant some welfare benefits only, but this is being phased out with the introduction of Universal Credit. Polygamy is treated as bigamy if a second marriage (or civil partnership) is contracted in the United Kingdom. No legal recognition is extended to spouses of subsequent marriages after the first marriage is recognised even when subsequent marriages are contracted abroad.
      so ... it would be my view that his '2nd (foreign) marriage' would not be recognised in UK law.
      Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

      It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

      recte agens confido

      ~~~~~

      Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

      I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
      But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

      Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

        Originally posted by Kati View Post
        and further on the polygamy issue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_polygamy

        so ... it would be my view that his '2nd (foreign) marriage' would not be recognised in UK law.
        Absolutely correct!!

        nem

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

          If the ex wanted to obtain child maintenance and lives in a non remo country she would probably have to get a court order.
          This could then be enforced through the courts.
          An unlikely scenario, especially if she doesn't obtain a visa and would have to instruct her counsel from abroad.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

            Originally posted by Kati View Post
            and further on the polygamy issue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_polygamy

            so ... it would be my view that his '2nd (foreign) marriage' would not be recognised in UK law.
            Agreed (see post 2)

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

              Originally posted by des8 View Post
              Agreed (see post 2)
              I know I was just posting extra links :lol:
              Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

              It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

              recte agens confido

              ~~~~~

              Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
              But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

              Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

                Originally posted by des8 View Post
                If the ex wanted to obtain child maintenance and lives in a non remo country she would probably have to get a court order.
                This could then be enforced through the courts.
                An unlikely scenario, especially if she doesn't obtain a visa and would have to instruct her counsel from abroad.
                So if she managed to get a court order from the UK for child maintenance, of course she will be using a solicitor in the UK, could her solicitor apply for any court and solicitor fees back from the father!!

                And would it make any difference if she still married to the father or divorced?

                Thanks

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

                  Originally posted by 5am1224 View Post
                  So if she managed to get a court order from the UK for child maintenance, of course she will be using a solicitor in the UK, could her solicitor apply for any court and solicitor fees back from the father!!
                  I don't think she'd be able to get CM without a dna test if the 'father' was asking for proof
                  Originally posted by 5am1224 View Post
                  And would it make any difference if she still married to the father or divorced?
                  If the father was already married (and that marriage was recognised in the UK) when he married the mother of this child, then as @des8 pointed out in post #2 (and I did in post #32) the 2nd marriage would not be recognised in the UK as legitimate.
                  Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

                  It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

                  recte agens confido

                  ~~~~~

                  Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                  I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
                  But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

                  Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

                    Originally posted by Kati View Post
                    I don't think she'd be able to get CM without a dna test if the 'father' was asking for proof

                    If the father was already married (and that marriage was recognised in the UK) when he married the mother of this child, then as @des8 pointed out in post #2 (and I did in post #32) the 2nd marriage would not be recognised in the UK as legitimate.

                    The father have just told me that his marriage to the 2nd wife was not registered in the other country until the baby was 5 moth old, but according to the law in the other country they had to backdate the marriage 9 moth before the baby was born otherwise it's kind of a big massive shame. the marriage certificate is actually showing that the official marriage was after the baby was born but again it states that both of the parents were married but not officially. would that makes any difference to the registration of the baby in the UK as the father wasn't officially married to the mother when the baby was born!!!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

                      The date of the marriage would be based on the date on the certificate. It would make no difference as to the dna of the child (or any CM claims) whether the birth certificate says they were married or not
                      Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

                      It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

                      recte agens confido

                      ~~~~~

                      Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                      I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
                      But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

                      Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

                        As far as I know in order to register the baby to a British father without the father's permission, the mother and father must be married when the baby was born, but in my friend's case they were not married when baby born.

                        So without doing a DNA the mother shouldn't be able to register the baby as she wasn't officially married to the British father at the time!!! what do you think!!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

                          I think your friend has mixed motives:
                          Post 25 "The father would love to take the baby to live with him", but doesn't want him registered as British, and is not prepared to support him. and is prepared to do a DNA test to prove the child isn't his, although earlier he was prepared to accept paternity of the child.

                          In any case the officials at the embassy or consulate she turns up at will do whatever they think is correct. Our opinions will count for nought, and I would not like to raise false hopes.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

                            Originally posted by des8 View Post
                            I think your friend has mixed motives:
                            Post 25 "The father would love to take the baby to live with him", but doesn't want him registered as British, and is not prepared to support him. and is prepared to do a DNA test to prove the child isn't his, although earlier he was prepared to accept paternity of the child.

                            In any case the officials at the embassy or consulate she turns up at will do whatever they think is correct. Our opinions will count for nought, and I would not like to raise false hopes.

                            The thing is the mother is blackmailing the father and telling him that she will get the baby registered in the UK then she will be moving to live in the UK on the fact that her baby is British and she will be draining the father's pocket by applying for a child maintenance and she will be getting all benefits in the UK for herself.

                            So the father wants to stop the baby to be registered in the UK in order to stop all of that happening.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

                              Originally posted by 5am1224 View Post
                              The thing is the mother is blackmailing the father and telling him that she will get the baby registered in the UK then she will be moving to live in the UK on the fact that her baby is British and she will be draining the father's pocket by applying for a child maintenance and she will be getting all benefits in the UK for herself.

                              So the father wants to stop the baby to be registered in the UK in order to stop all of that happening.
                              0

                              The only point there that directly affects the father is "applying for child maintenance". As I said he is not prepared to support his child, he wants either some state or some other person to do it for him. I don't see his ex's actions as "blackmail", which is making an unwarranted demand with menaces with a view to making a gain. A very serious crime which carries a max sentence of 14 years.
                              From what you tell us he appears to want to avoid his responsibilities.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Polygamy .... Bigamy !!!

                                Thanks for your response,

                                Could you please explain 'A very serious crime which carries a max sentence of 14 years.'

                                Comment

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