Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

[GerryMatt]

Hi everybody. I have just joined the forum. I have done so because my family are experiencing some terrible difficulties with social services. I am trying to help my mum to get them off our backs. During a recent child protection meeting a libellous statement was made against a member of my family, stating that they had recently been arrested for a violent crime, which is totally untrue. We have the minutes document with this statement in writing and are thinking of suing the council.
I believe that the council are responsible for this statement which was made with regard to a police report. I do not believe the police were responsible for supplying this false information. The chair of the conference is responsible for ensuring the accuracy of the minutes, which have now been distributed among a number of professionals.
I have done some research and I believe the first thing is the pre-action protocol which I must serve on the defendant stating the problem, the injury done and a course of action for them to put it right/pay compensation.
Does anybody know who I should address the pre-action letter to in the Council? I am not sure whether it would be the chair of the conference, the chief executive, the head of department or the complaints department. Also any further advice would be appreciated. I believe I have a solid case here against them so if anybody here is interested in getting involved I would be interested to hear from you.

[seduraed]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

Jumping that far ahead seems too much too soon . You need to exhaust teh interal council procedeures. write to the head of the department outlining the complaint and stating the desired outcome . Send a copy to your elected ward councillor. Then Keep going until you get a final response /deadlock letter from the council. Then tr the ombudsman. What do want . The statement rescinded in writing. That member of staff taken off the case?
Be sure you know exactly what you want . Dont talk to any of the staff on the phone they have selective memories. Do stay calm shouting and screaming at them wont help . Do keep copies. Don't give the council original documents. If they insist on seeing the original go into the council office and have the document scanned . If you have email scan ll documents and send them as attachments . Dont forget to copy the ward councillor in on all communications

[GerryMatt]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

Jumping that far ahead seems too much too soon . You need to exhaust teh interal council procedeures. write to the head of the department outlining the complaint and stating the desired outcome . Send a copy to your elected ward councillor. Then Keep going until you get a final response /deadlock letter from the council. Then tr the ombudsman. What do want . The statement rescinded in writing. That member of staff taken off the case?
Be sure you know exactly what you want . Dont talk to any of the staff on the phone they have selective memories. Do stay calm shouting and screaming at them wont help . Do keep copies. Don't give the council original documents. If they insist on seeing the original go into the council office and have the document scanned . If you have email scan ll documents and send them as attachments . Dont forget to copy the ward councillor in on all communications

Thanks for your advice. I think you are right about copying correspondence to my ward councillor. However, I have past experience of complaining to the Council and the Ombudsman over a similar matter involving myself some years ago. The whole thing was completely whitewashed by them. I am aware that there is a 1 year time limit for libel cases and also that councils deliberately waste your time, so to me the best way forward is just to sue. I just want to make sure that when we do they do not waste our time saying we have sent the letter to the wrong department or treat it like a complaint as opposed to a letter of claim.

[MissFM]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

I've replied to your post on the other thread but as regards this one: libel is notoriously expensive to litigate and difficult to prove and you are up against someone with bottomless pockets (ie the local authority which is funded from taxpayers' money).

In your position I would think very carefully about what can realistically be achieved - and what you want to achieve - and go from there.
[MENTION=9906]seduraed[/MENTION]'s advice looks good to me x

[leclerc]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

Hi everybody. I have just joined the forum. I have done so because my family are experiencing some terrible difficulties with social services. I am trying to help my mum to get them off our backs. During a recent child protection meeting a libellous statement was made against a member of my family, stating that they had recently been arrested for a violent crime, which is totally untrue. We have the minutes document with this statement in writing and are thinking of suing the council.
Who made the statement? What evidence did they have for making this statement? It's not libellous btw as the meetings are confidential, however, there may well be grounds for a complaint.

I believe that the council are responsible for this statement which was made with regard to a police report. I do not believe the police were responsible for supplying this false information. The chair of the conference is responsible for ensuring the accuracy of the minutes, which have now been distributed among a number of professionals.
They need to provide you with the evidence of this statement. In terms of the Independent Reviewing Officer and accuracy of the notes(well, what they should do and what they actually do maybe different).

I have done some research and I believe the first thing is the pre-action protocol which I must serve on the defendant stating the problem, the injury done and a course of action for them to put it right/pay compensation.
Pre action protocols are about courts and a Child Protection meeting is not in court. I would add that normally you are sometimes presented with information literally 2 minutes before the conference. To be honest, been there with my sister(she lost her two kids to forced adoption) and we are still tying to get information corrected.

Does anybody know who I should address the pre-action letter to in the Council? I am not sure whether it would be the chair of the conference, the chief executive, the head of department or the complaints department. Also any further advice would be appreciated. I believe I have a solid case here against them so if anybody here is interested in getting involved I would be interested to hear from you.

You need to firstly get the evidence that they used to give this statement. If it is inaccurate then you need to write to the Independent Reviewing Office plus the social worker assigned to the case. ALWAYS keep copies of any correspondence. I will add that this is the first step in the process which might ultimately lead to you going as far as Health Care Professional Council complaint(if the info is from the social worker). You saying it didn't happen does not mean a thing to them.

Until you have the evidence then you have no case against the local authority that is winnable. You need to follow the appropriate steps via the complaints system in place.

I think I have kinda more or less said what sadureed has said.

[GerryMatt]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

You need to firstly get the evidence that they used to give this statement. If it is inaccurate then you need to write to the Independent Reviewing Office plus the social worker assigned to the case. ALWAYS keep copies of any correspondence. I will add that this is the first step in the process which might ultimately lead to you going as far as Health Care Professional Council complaint(if the info is from the social worker). You saying it didn't happen does not mean a thing to them.

Until you have the evidence then you have no case against the local authority that is winnable. You need to follow the appropriate steps via the complaints system in place.

I think I have kinda more or less said what sadureed has said.

It would definitely be a good idea to get a hold of the police report in order to check the statement made in the minutes against the information they supplied, which I will do.
Is it necessary, however, to follow their internal complaints procedures before taking legal action or notifying them about the possibility of such?

[leclerc]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

It would definitely be a good idea to get a hold of the police report in order to check the statement made in the minutes against the information they supplied, which I will do.
Is it necessary, however, to follow their internal complaints procedures before taking legal action or notifying them about the possibility of such?

To be blunt with you, you do not have a case for libel against the council which is why I am telling you to not even go there. I might ask site team to briefly explain why there is no libel case here.

[EXC]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

Is it necessary, however, to follow their internal complaints procedures before taking legal action or notifying them about the possibility of such?

It is essential that you do. Courts take the view that you have an obligation to attempt to settle disputes before taking them to court especially when there are established complaints procedures available to you and you risk your case being thrown out unless you do.

[Celestine]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

If a council, during a closed meeting allege you have committed housing benefit fraud - is that libel?
If a police officer accuses you of theft, incorrectly - is that libel?
If a HR manager accuses you of falsifying a time sheet - is that libel?

There are numerous incidences in life whereby those in authority accuse us incorrectly, we then have to use the system to establish innocence. It's not pleasant and it is painful to tackle, but it does happen every day.

If the council had visited a website like Legal Beagles and published allegations against you - that would be libel potentially, but authorities have to go about their business, conducting investigations, quite often making accusations - but this does not leave them open to libel threats.

Please, do not even consider this avenue, we have a dreadful time here digging people out of very unwise litigation, follow the internal process fully.

[GerryMatt]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

If a council, during a closed meeting allege you have committed housing benefit fraud - is that libel?
If a police officer accuses you of theft, incorrectly - is that libel?
If a HR manager accuses you of falsifying a time sheet - is that libel?

There are numerous incidences in life whereby those in authority accuse us incorrectly, we then have to use the system to establish innocence. It's not pleasant and it is painful to tackle, but it does happen every day.

If the council had visited a website like Legal Beagles and published allegations against you - that would be libel potentially, but authorities have to go about their business, conducting investigations, quite often making accusations - but this does not leave them open to libel threats.

Please, do not even consider this avenue, we have a dreadful time here digging people out of very unwise litigation, follow the internal process fully.

Hi There:
Thankyou for taking the time to respond, which is much appreciated. I just want to clarify a few things.
As far as I am aware a libellous statement is such if it is 1) Written, 2) Is distributed to other parties, 3) Would cause these other parties to think the worse of you.
I believe that a record of minutes from a Case Conference which contains an untrue statement of the magnitude I am talking about, namely that a person poses a risk to a child because the were recently arrested at the home for a violent altercation, and was distributed to a list of around ten professionals, should qualify.
I accept that discussions have to take place and that certain parties will often make allegations during SS meetings. In this case, however, it appears that it is the SS themselves who have put this statement into writing as a means of justifying a S47 inquiry which otherwise does not meet the threshold of a child having suffered or being likely to suffer significant harm.
I believe that the standard procedure is for police to issue a report of any recent or past involvement with the family to the Conference. Therefore the Chair can have no excuse for having invented a non existent arrest (unless, of course, the police report is inaccurate).
Furthermore, going back 8 years ago when I complained to the Council myself over a matter relating to my family I was told that I was not a service user and therefore not entitled to use the complaints procedure. Surely this changes the game slightly?
We have already made a Stage 2 complaint against the Council in regard to a number of matters, including the decision to initiate a Child Protection procedure when my sister could have continued to be treated as a Child in Need. We have also mentioned this issue of the defamatory statement as part of a list of complaints that we want them to address.
As regards the Stage 1 complaint my mother asked for a written response and we still have not received this after a month. They do not appear to like putting things in writing, for obvious reasons.
From past experience this is a completely dysfunctional Children's Services department. I believe they failed their last inspection also. They are not following even basic procedural guidelines.

[GerryMatt]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

One thing I would point out also is that surely an authority could avoid a libel case if they made it clear that a person was 'suspected of' something as opposed to stating that they were guilty of it.

[Kati]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

I believe you will still have to follow the complaints procedure through first
If they refuse to allow your complaint to be allowed through, you can take it up with the CEO of the council (via your MP) and follow it through the process that way!
K x

[leclerc]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

Hi There:
Thankyou for taking the time to respond, which is much appreciated. I just want to clarify a few things.
As far as I am aware a libellous statement is such if it is 1) Written, 2) Is distributed to other parties, 3) Would cause these other parties to think the worse of you.
I believe that a record of minutes from a Case Conference which contains an untrue statement of the magnitude I am talking about, namely that a person poses a risk to a child because the were recently arrested at the home for a violent altercation, and was distributed to a list of around ten professionals, should qualify.

The fact that there is an Initial Child Protection Case Conference means that they have already identified that the child is in need as a minimum. The ICPCC notes are supposed to be an accurate account of what happened at the meeting. IF you are saying that it was not mentioned at the meeting then the notes are inaccurate however, was that information given questioned at the meeting? That should have been annotated in the meeting and you can ask for the notes to reflect that if it does not do so. It's no defamation and it's no libel to annotate what is said in the ICPCC.

I accept that discussions have to take place and that certain parties will often make allegations during SS meetings. In this case, however, it appears that it is the SS themselves who have put this statement into writing as a means of justifying a S47 inquiry which otherwise does not meet the threshold of a child having suffered or being likely to suffer significant harm.

Self harm justifies a s47 inquiry because the child is at risk.

I believe that the standard procedure is for police to issue a report of any recent or past involvement with the family to the Conference.
The police are usually present at the first ICPCC and they will state if there has been any police involvement and whether they need to be involved in subsequent meetings.

Therefore the Chair can have no excuse for having invented a non existent arrest (unless, of course, the police report is inaccurate).

If the matter was discussed in the ICPCC then they have the right to include them in the report. That does not mean that once you have the evidence that you can challenge that issue.

Furthermore, going back 8 years ago when I complained to the Council myself over a matter relating to my family I was told that I was not a service user and therefore not entitled to use the complaints procedure. Surely this changes the game slightly?

If you are not directly involved in the ICPCC and I might add if you were not at the ICPCC even as an advisor to your mother then you have NO right to complain over it.(and believe me I know very well how frustrating, stressful and what things go round and round your mind when you are in the middle of this thing)

We have already made a Stage 2 complaint against the Council in regard to a number of matters, including the decision to initiate a Child Protection procedure when my sister could have continued to be treated as a Child in Need.

If she has specifically told someone she self harmed, and attempted suicide then there is cause for something to be done. I am sure you are aware of the phrase "damned if they do and damned if they don't"? If they did nothing and your sister committed suicide then they would have been criticised for not doing something.

We have also mentioned this issue of the defamatory statement as part of a list of complaints that we want them to address.

I don't think it's defamatory but it might be inaccurate and needs correcting.

As regards the Stage 1 complaint my mother asked for a written response and we still have not received this after a month. They do not appear to like putting things in writing, for obvious reasons.
If your mother has the original correspondence then email the Chief executive of the local council stating you have had no response to the letter and that this is unacceptable.

From past experience this is a completely dysfunctional Children's Services department. I believe they failed their last inspection also. They are not following even basic procedural guidelines.

From what you have written above they have not as such committed defamation. However, once you confirm that the information is inaccurate then they have to correct it but you need that information in writing.

[GerryMatt]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

I will have to see the police report first before I can say for definite, but I am pretty sure the statement would qualify as defamatory for the reasons already given. I have not read anything so far that suggests social workers are 'privileged' and exempt from libel proceedings if they tell such lies. They may be able to get away with quoting other people and expressing opinions etc but this has been presented clearly as a fact in the section of the report entitled "Chronology Of Police Involvement With Family".
As already expressed there has already been some historical police and SS involvement in relation to family rows almost nine years ago, so it appears they are trying to suggest this is ongoing and therefore an additional 'risk' along with the alleged self harming.
If Social Workers are privileged to make any statement they like about anybody with full immunity from prosecution please could you refer me to the relevant section of the law/guidelines where this is stated.

[leclerc]

Re: Suing A Local Authority For Defamation

Apologies but I am stepping away from this thread. Good Luck though with any defamation case you might construct.