Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

[MissFM]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

It sounded to me like the whole adoption issue was raised by the Dad and his Mum as a way of permanently excluding EmmaP from the baby’s (and their) lives.

Yes, Paws, me too.

The OP - Emma - had made the difficult and selfless decision that the child should be adopted (so as to have loving parents that desired, and were prepared for, a child) and then the father decided that he would not like his biological offspring to be lost to him. He stipulated that he would take the child himself provided that she (the mother) were to be permanently removed from the equation.

IMVHO the above shows neither realism, nor maturity, nor a genuine regard for a child's wellbeing.

The one thing I think is essential is that although things can be discussed and conditional arrangements agreed, no decision should be made until after the baby is born and that Emma is not bullied by Casanova, his mother or social services.

Agree absolutely. Children are not chattels.

[wales01man]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

EmmaP words from an old man here
PLEASE think long and hard about this you can get help for any problems you have look at this as a setback and with the father and other support do what you feel you need to do at the moment but keep future options open for your child.

Help and support for you and the baby can be sought go for it and keep the baby in your life with the father if you can in time you can form a relationship with baby after all the demons have gone

[leclerc]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

EmmaP is in Devon and the Chap lives in London.

If dad’s name is on the Birth Certificate then he has certain obligations and therefore (surely?) legal rights.
What MissFM was saying was that AUTOMATIC parental responsibility rather than acquired parental responsibility which would give all the rights and responsibilities that a father would have.
The point I am trying to make is that if the dad has custody with Emma's consent and she has the same contact rights as he would have if she keeps the baby then I do not know why anyone has to even bring up the word ‘adoption’. It sounded to me like the whole adoption issue was raised by the Dad and his Mum as a way of permanently excluding EmmaP from the baby’s (and their) lives.
EmmaP mentioned adoption firstly prior to the father's involvement and in regards to contact, she has no automatic right of contact under the law. In fact, the reason why we are all suggesting legal advice is that the child could be brought up without a mother until they reach adulthood, similar to adoption where the child has no right to contact with a parent until they reach 18 years of age. The damage of no contact could be worse because the child might connect being abandoned with having no contact.

Forget the whole idea of her being allowed to send letters etc. If she wants the same contact rights as she would grant him then she should be allowed them.
I would totally agree however that Emma should speak to someone to ensure the Chap and his Mother could provide a suitable environment and continuous care. If social services or whoever do not feel they are suitable guardians then they will be miffed but Emma may also be faced with making a very hard decision if this is the case and she feels she really cannot cope.
The one thing I think is essential is that although things can be discussed and conditional arrangements agreed, no decision should be made until after the baby is born and that Emma is not bullied by Casanova, his mother or social services.

See above. I think we are all saying that legal advice will protect the mother and the child and the father et al. I don't like the idea of simply no contact ever because EmmaP may at a time in the future be in a place where she would want contact with her child and simply to agree to no contact whatsoever is, in my opinion, something to be guarded against.

[Kati]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

I think we are all saying that legal advice will protect the mother and the child and the father et al. I don't like the idea of simply no contact ever because EmmaP may at a time in the future be in a place where she would want contact with her child and simply to agree to no contact whatsoever is, in my opinion, something to be guarded against.

I agree ... people change, feelings change. Signing away your rights for good is definitely something I would advise against - [MENTION=54902]EmmaP[/MENTION], you could one day decide that you want to be in this child's life ... if you've relinquished all your parental rights, you might not get that chance

K x

[EmmaP]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Thanks to everyone for their advice and input.

I am currently at university so not claiming any benefits but I have money (student loan/grant) so eating accommodation etc is all taken care of and I have had pre natal care (scan's etc) I know that there is lots of help for students with children in the form of financial and emotional support and I understand that. I just feel like I can't cope nor do I want too, but I do mean that it the least horrible way.

The father wants a DNA test after the baby is born before he does anything, the baby is 1000% his but I understand why he would want a DNA test as we were never in a relationship. He said that he will get things sorted before hand so that when the DNA test comes back after birth he can take things from there. I don't blame him for asking me to get an abortion as I understand that a lot of people would probably say that as their inital thoughts are nothing but fearful. He did not support me during the pregnancy nor did any one in his family as none of them knew until recently. He told me he wanted no involvement hence why he wasn't involved. His mum is recently retired hence why shes offered up her help as she will have a lot of free time. He was also offered a job abroad and I do not know if he intends to take that offer and leave the child with his mum but that is something we will have to talk about. I haven't talked to his mum at all, but I intend to ask him to ask her to call me.

We are talking on the phone later in regards to what I want in terms of contact. I think he will be quite reasonable because he knows if I fight it in court then I will get access even if he has custody. Im just confused in the terms of the legal sense?

Say I wanted him to have custody of the child with me having weekend contact then would it not be easier if we just left everything the same as it would be if I was keeping the baby, the difference being that he takes the baby home and I make arrangements with him too see the baby with nothing being legally binding? He will sign the birth certificate so we will have equal rights. If the father is to take custody and the mother have weekend access then does this need to be declared to social services?

I just feel so stressed and don't know where to start at all. I guess if I contact my local social services then they can help me out and possible contact his local authority and sort things out regarding the suitability and making sure he is able to cope ??

I am really hesitant to agree to this but I kind of feel I have to as I don't think legally I would stand a chance with him offering custody. He works a lot which I understand he has too and I do not blame him for that. But he is ALWAYS out until the early hours of the morning (4am etc) even on weekdays with his friends and random girls, he goes out a lot on the weekends too. I just think he is under estimating how much his mum will be willing to do and how hard a baby is going to be. Ive tried explaining to him that if he has this baby then he will not be able to go out half as much as he does and he will not be able to keep meeting all of these girls and he just shouts and me and tells me not to tell him he can't cope because its his choice and if I don't agree he will take me to court.

I think he actually has a longterm girlfriend (they broke up a few months before I slept with him then got back together a couple of months after) Last night I messaged him suggesting we speak about contact, I wrote a very very long message about the baby and how we needed to talk and all he wrote back was "Not reading that too long, phone you tomorrow" And I messaged back "why not tonight, I want to get this sorted?" he didn't read it till 3AM then he didn't reply. if he is still with this girlfriend (which im unsure if he is as he hasn't said anything) then she does know about the pregnancy as he read a message on his phone back when I was in the early stages of pregnancy. She is the one who put in to his mind that its not his. Personally I really fear that he is going to be to scared to tell her the situation about custody of the child therefore I think he wont tell her and he will keep it from her meaning him spending time with her and her being top of his priority and the baby going without him because of this.

[leclerc]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

His mother may want to be assessed for "special guardianship". The specific part of the Children's Act 1989 is in section 14: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...l-guardianship

Custody can pass onto his mother but local social services should make an assessment as to whether that is a viable proposition.

EmmaP, as a student you have advisors at University which will include the fact that they may be able to recommend legal advice(perhaps even someone who is lecturing in law might be able to give you some free advice). If not then I do know someone who will be able to provide legal advice completely free of charge but I will need to pass on the details to Kati first of all.

[PAWS]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

I just feel like I can't cope nor do I want too, but I domean that it the least horrible way.

I understand 100% believe me. May I also add that this is asensible and very honest thing to say. I wish more women were as honest as this!

Say I wanted him to have custody of the child with me having weekend contact then would it not be easier if we just left everything the same as it would be if I was keeping the baby, the difference being that he takes the baby home and I make arrangements with him too see the baby with nothing being legally binding? He will sign the birth certificate so we will have equal rights. If the father is to take custody and the mother have weekend accesst hen does this need to be declared to social services?

That is exactly what I was saying. The only reason we thought you should have social services involved is if you were not sure the conditions of the fathers home and wanted a ‘professional’ to check it out but if there is dialogue between you and his mum and you are happy with the way they live then that is ok. This is about you feeling comfortable and secure. Then you can get on with looking after yourself!You must allow for the fact that he is a young man who isalso scared. Do, please try and relax a bit and try to bear in mind thateverything could change once the baby is born. Do you need to talk to someoneabout other options?

[MissFM]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

His mother may want to be assessed for "special guardianship". The specific part of the Children's Act 1989 is in section 14: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...l-guardianship

Custody can pass onto his mother but local social services should make an assessment as to whether that is a viable proposition.

Further info on the same lines in case it's of use to you, Emma:

http://www.baaf.org.uk/info/kinship-...l-guardianship

[leclerc]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Further info on the same lines in case it's of use to you, Emma:

http://www.baaf.org.uk/info/kinship-...l-guardianship

Or this: http://www.frg.org.uk/images/Advice_...th-parents.pdf

[MissFM]

Re: Mother giving the father full custody voluntarily

Thanks to everyone for their advice and input.

I am currently at university so not claiming any benefits but I have money (student loan/grant) so eating accommodation etc is all taken care of and I have had pre natal care (scan's etc) I know that there is lots of help for students with children in the form of financial and emotional support and I understand that. I just feel like I can't cope nor do I want too, but I do mean that it the least horrible way.

It's your life and your judgment that matters here. Everyone here will support you in any way we can, whatever you decide to do.


The father wants a DNA test after the baby is born before he does anything, the baby is 1000% his but I understand why he would want a DNA test as we were never in a relationship. He said that he will get things sorted before hand so that when the DNA test comes back after birth he can take things from there. I don't blame him for asking me to get an abortion as I understand that a lot of people would probably say that as their inital thoughts are nothing but fearful. He did not support me during the pregnancy nor did any one in his family as none of them knew until recently. He told me he wanted no involvement hence why he wasn't involved. His mum is recently retired hence why shes offered up her help as she will have a lot of free time. He was also offered a job abroad and I do not know if he intends to take that offer and leave the child with his mum but that is something we will have to talk about. I haven't talked to his mum at all, but I intend to ask him to ask her to call me.

A wise plan.

We are talking on the phone later in regards to what I want in terms of contact. I think he will be quite reasonable because he knows if I fight it in court then I will get access even if he has custody. Im just confused in the terms of the legal sense?

Legally, you hold all the aces, Emma - certainly until you put his name on the birth certificate. Even then, he would have to show considerably more preparation and commitment should he wish to override any decision you make in the interests of the child.

Say I wanted him to have custody of the child with me having weekend contact then would it not be easier if we just left everything the same as it would be if I was keeping the baby, the difference being that he takes the baby home and I make arrangements with him too see the baby with nothing being legally binding? He will sign the birth certificate so we will have equal rights. If the father is to take custody and the mother have weekend access then does this need to be declared to social services?

If this is the route you want to follow (allowing the father residence) it's my personal opinion that it would be wise to have every safeguard in place, including involving social services, particularly in view of what you say below:


I just feel so stressed and don't know where to start at all. I guess if I contact my local social services then they can help me out and possible contact his local authority and sort things out regarding the suitability and making sure he is able to cope ??

I am really hesitant to agree to this but I kind of feel I have to as I don't think legally I would stand a chance with him offering custody. He works a lot which I understand he has too and I do not blame him for that. But he is ALWAYS out until the early hours of the morning (4am etc) even on weekdays with his friends and random girls, he goes out a lot on the weekends too. I just think he is under estimating how much his mum will be willing to do and how hard a baby is going to be. Ive tried explaining to him that if he has this baby then he will not be able to go out half as much as he does and he will not be able to keep meeting all of these girls and he just shouts and me and tells me not to tell him he can't cope because its his choice and if I don't agree he will take me to court.

I think he actually has a longterm girlfriend (they broke up a few months before I slept with him then got back together a couple of months after) Last night I messaged him suggesting we speak about contact, I wrote a very very long message about the baby and how we needed to talk and all he wrote back was "Not reading that too long, phone you tomorrow" And I messaged back "why not tonight, I want to get this sorted?" he didn't read it till 3AM then he didn't reply. if he is still with this girlfriend (which im unsure if he is as he hasn't said anything) then she does know about the pregnancy as he read a message on his phone back when I was in the early stages of pregnancy. She is the one who put in to his mind that its not his. Personally I really fear that he is going to be to scared to tell her the situation about custody of the child therefore I think he wont tell her and he will keep it from her meaning him spending time with her and her being top of his priority and the baby going without him because of this.

Honestly I don't mean to be a bad fairy but he doesn't sound at all ready to be a full time father or realistic about the prospect.

Please don't feel bullied or railroaded against your better judgment.

We are all here for you and will support you in whatever you decide. As the mother of this baby, you do get to make the decisions unless YOU decide to reliquish that right - please don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

HTH xxx