Advice required re anonymous tip off

[Sparklingcider]

Hi to all

Not sure if this is the right place to post this and would be grateful if its not then it gets placed in the relevant department. I'm the aunt of a 10 month old boy that has previously been severely beaten by his father. I reported the latest incident via telephone to the local council social services whom sent the police round (several days later) and they found nothing of concern???!!! The parents have now turned round and claimed they are being victimized and that someone has it in for them and is just making false allegations against them (as if I've got nothing better to do)!!! Apparently the police have told them that they will get them a copy of the telephone conversation which altho anon was recorded meaning I will be identifiable to the parents!!! What kind of charges will I be looking at and do I need to seek professional legal advice???!!! I wasn't trying to cause trouble - I was merely concerned for the safety of the child and for trying to do the right thing I'm going to possibly be prosecuted???!!! PLEASE ADVISE as I am worried sick about this.....Thanks....

Jo

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

I guess first question has to be, was the child beaten by his father, do you have evidence, did you see it first hand, did the child have bruises, etc.

It is ridiculous that people should end up being scared to report suspected abuse of a child.

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-adv..._wda89787.html

[Sparklingcider]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

I guess first question has to be, was the child beaten by his father, do you have evidence, did you see it first hand, did the child have bruises, etc.

It is ridiculous that people should end up being scared to report suspected abuse of a child.

Child WAS beaten by his father - I didn't witness this particular incident but have witnessed previous incidents where the father doesn't just give the child a light tap/slap but punches him. He did the same this time around and my sister witnessed it and came back and told me that the father had punched the child several times on the head. I thought enough is enough and so decided to report it. The police only went round several days later and concluded that there was nothing to worry about???!!! The whole incident has now put me into the predicament outlined and I want to know what to do???!!!
I was always under the impression that even if an anonymous tip off is recorded it is still kept confidential otherwise if for example you were reporting witnessing a murder or some such incident and the suspect was played back the tip off then there would be every chance they could identify you and there would be repercussions for you and therefore what would be the point of the tip off - besides which no-one would ever go to the trouble of reporting anything for fear of the repercussions???!!!

[MissFM]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

Do follow the NSPCC link provided by Amethyst in post 3 above and ring their helpline to talk this through. They will both take your concerns seriously and, I hope, help allay/neutralise the fears you have on possible reprisals or police indiscretion. This must be an all too common scenario for them.

There is no possible justification for hitting a 10 month old child. If you have good reason to think this is going on then you MUST take action - much better to have a thousand false alarms than a child abused or endangered.

What makes you think the police will play the phone call to the parents or that expressing your legitimate concerns exposes you to prosecution?

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

Do follow the NSPCC link provided by Amethyst in post 3 above and ring their helpline to talk this through. They will both take your concerns seriously and, I hope, help allay/neutralise the fears you have on possible reprisals or police indiscretion. This must be an all too common scenario for them.

There is no possible justification for hitting a 10 month old child. If you have good reason to think this is going on then you MUST take action - much better to have a thousand false alarms than a child abused or endangered.

Utterly agree.

[Sparklingcider]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

Do follow the NSPCC link provided by Amethyst in post 3 above and ring their helpline to talk this through. They will both take your concerns seriously and, I hope, help allay/neutralise the fears you have on possible reprisals or police indiscretion. This must be an all too common scenario for them.

There is no possible justification for hitting a 10 month old child. If you have good reason to think this is going on then you MUST take action - much better to have a thousand false alarms than a child abused or endangered.

What makes you think the police will play the phone call to the parents or that expressing your legitimate concerns exposes you to prosecution?

Thanks for the advice regarding contacting the NSPCC - I hope someone either there or on this forum can put my mind at rest with regards to my fears about reprisals/prosecution.
With regards to your question about the playback of the recording this is what the parents have said is going to happen. They are claiming that once they got the all clear from the police they played the 'victims' themselves in this whole scenario (no doubt to deflect future/further suspicion from themselves) claiming that someone has it in for them and is making false allegations against them and in the process wasting police time!!! They further claimed that as a result of their claims the police have agreed to get ahold of a copy of the tip off call which was apparently recorded and will in due course give them a copy!!! How much of this is true I obviously do not know but my concern is that if the recording is played back to them then my brother and SIL will of course be able to identify my voice!!! What concerns me is not only that I could face charges from the police for wasting their time/making this allegation but also there is the very real threat of my brother being violent towards me for reporting the matter in the first place.......

[MissFM]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

They further claimed that as a result of their claims the police have agreed to get ahold of a copy of the tip off call which was apparently recorded and will in due course give them a copy!!!

I would be astonished if the police were allowed to do that - but I don't know. The NSPCC are likely to both know and to know how to forestall such a thing. Will also PM Bluebottle who is familiar with police procedure, being an ex-policeman.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

Thanks for the advice regarding contacting the NSPCC - I hope someone either there or on this forum can put my mind at rest with regards to my fears about reprisals/prosecution.
With regards to your question about the playback of the recording this is what the parents have said is going to happen. They are claiming that once they got the all clear from the police they played the 'victims' themselves in this whole scenario (no doubt to deflect future/further suspicion from themselves) claiming that someone has it in for them and is making false allegations against them and in the process wasting police time!!!

I understand your fear of reprisals but no idea why you think you could be prosecuted, reporting your suspicions, even if they turned out to be unfounded, is NOT a criminal offence. :nono:

As for disclosing your identity, the NSPCC clearly state you can remain anonymous:

Remaining anonymous

You do not have to tell us who you are, but if you do, you can ask us not to pass on your details to any third party such as the police or Social Services.

We will:

• not share your details, if you provide them, without your permission
• remove any identifying information if we need to refer your report
• ask the police or Social Services not to share your details with the person or family concerned if we need to refer your report
• never give out any information about your report to the person or family that you have concerns about.

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-adv..._wda94067.html

Reporting to our helpline anonymously

Protect the child you are worried about and stay anonymous when contacting the NSPCC

Many people who want to contact us because they are worried about a child are also worried about sharing their identity.

They may be afraid of retaliation from a suspected abuser or concerned about the impact that making a report may have on their relationship with the child or family concerned.

However you choose to contact us, you don't have to tell us who you are, but it can help the child.

Because we act as a 'go between' with you and agencies like the police or social services, we need to make sure that they have all information they need to act on your concerns.
But we also want you to feel safe in making a report. You do not have to tell us who you are, but if you do, you can ask us not to pass on your details.
Many people have said that knowing they can talk to us anonymously has encouraged them to get in touch, and we believe it has helped us protect more children.

[Wombats]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

Taken from www.westmercia.police.uk:

"Set up more than 20 years ago, the confidential Crimestoppers telephone hotline - 0800 555 111 - provides an invaluable community service, so that anybody who has information about criminal activity can pass it on, without living in fear of the consequences.

Every call is treated with absolute anonymity so that nobody will know the identity of the caller, except you, the caller."

I am sure what the parents are claiming is incorrect and the recording will NOT be played to them.

Of course they may well spread this sort of rumour around to scare whoever made the tip off. You have no need to be scared and should do the same again in the same situation - well done for having the courage to do it.

[Madz]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

Sounds to me like the parents have said the police are going to give them the recording to panic the reporter into confessing, be careful not to show any concern about it, as that's what they are hoping for I suspect, to give them an indication as to who reported them.
There is no way on earth anyone in authority would disclose such information, stay indifferent when the subject it mentioned, but keep vigilant regarding the wellbeing of the child.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

Crimestoppers work in a slightly different way from the NSPCC in that it was set up with the purpose of encouraging people to report any kind of criminal activity, such as if you know someone's dealing drugs, selling stolen goods, ripping people off or vandalising property. Most people wouldn't want to get involved in reporting anything unless they could do so anonymously. :mod: :mod:

The NSPCC deals exclusively with child abuse and, as they say on their website, in some cases it may help if you tell them who you are, for example, if you work as a nanny/au-pair/babysitter and you've seen the family abuse the child, you'd be able to provide insider info that an outsider say, a neighbour, wouldn't have. That could help them target their approach and investigations but it doesn't mean they will go and tell the family who reported them. Even a child can report their abuser if they are old enough. :thumb:

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

Having received two PMs to look in on this thread and advise on police procedures, although I, myself, am not a parent, I am, nevertheless, alarmed by what SC's posts have highlighted.

Any abuse of a child, no matter what form it takes, is serious and should be reported to the relevant authorities before a tragedy occurs. The scenario painted of SC's BIL indicates a control freak with a propensity for violence and, yet, someone who can charm the hind legs off donkey. Be in no doubt that this is what would be colloquially-referred to as a Jekyll and Hyde personality. I have come across abusers who fit this profile; it is not an uncommon profile where abusers are concerned, including those who beat-up their partners. Playing the victim when confronted about their behaviour is a common trait, as it is with the majority of bullies. The sooner the child is removed from an environment where it is at real risk of physical injury, the better.

I have no doubt the BIL convinced the police all was well and this is what the police reported back to Social Services. I don't think the police can be blamed in that respect as some abusers can be very convincing. However, it would only be a Child Protection Team devoid of any sense of duty that ignored a report of violence towards a 10 month-old child. We all know what happened in the case of Baby Peter and the need to ensure such cases never happen again.

Turning to the subject of the report to the police, if this was done via the 999 system, I can advise that ALL 999 calls are recorded. If it was reported via the 101 non-emergency system, calls are also recorded. As to the recording of the report to the police being disclosed to the BIL, to the best of my knowledge and belief, the recordings are subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Official Secrets Acts 1911 et seq. A person suspected of abusing a child would not be told who had reported their actions to Social Services or the police, especially where the suspect has a propensity for violence or is known to be violent. If the police or Social Services were to expose a well-meaning person to the risk of violence, the police officer or whoever in Social Services responsible for disclosing who has made a report would almost certainly face dismissal without notice as well as the very real possibility of prosecution.

If note the matter was reported to the police by Social Services, it will be someone from Social Services whose voice will be on the recording, not SC's.

In order to prosecute someone for the offences of Making A False Report, it would have to be shown that the alleged perpetrator did so intentionally and knew, at the time of doing so, that no crime had been committed. The offence of Wasteful Employment of Police is reserved more for false reports that waste a lot of public money and police manpower, e.g. a false allegation of rape, than a genuine call reporting a 10-month old child being physically-abused.

At this point in time, it is best not to inflame the situation, but to remain vigilant all the same, mainly for the welfare of SC's 10 month-old nephew. The incident SC's sister witnessed is very clear evidence that an Emergency Care Order is required to remove the child to a place o safety, albeit that there is nothing to prevent the police removing the child to a place of safety until an on-call social worker from the local Child Protection Team can attend and arrange temporary foster care.

I have say that I admire SC's courage in reporting the abuse and she should not let herself be intimidated by someone who is a control freak and bully.

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

Having received two PMs to look in on this thread and advise on police procedures, although I, myself, am not a parent, I am, nevertheless, alarmed by what SC's posts have highlighted.

Any abuse of a child, no matter what form it takes, is serious and should be reported to the relevant authorities before a tragedy occurs. The scenario painted of SC's BIL indicates a control freak with a propensity for violence and, yet, someone who can charm the hind legs off donkey. Be in no doubt that this is what would be colloquially-referred to as a Jekyll and Hyde personality. I have come across abusers who fit this profile; it is not an uncommon profile where abusers are concerned, including those who beat-up their partners. Playing the victim when confronted about their behaviour is a common trait, as it is with the majority of bullies. The sooner the child is removed from an environment where it is at real risk of physical injury, the better.

I have no doubt the BIL convinced the police all was well and this is what the police reported back to Social Services. I don't think the police can be blamed in that respect as some abusers can be very convincing. However, it would only be a Child Protection Team devoid of any sense of duty that ignored a report of violence towards a 10 month-old child. We all know what happened in the case of Baby Peter and the need to ensure such cases never happen again.

Turning to the subject of the report to the police, if this was done via the 999 system, I can advise that ALL 999 calls are recorded. If it was reported via the 101 non-emergency system, calls are also recorded. As to the recording of the report to the police being disclosed to the BIL, to the best of my knowledge and belief, the recordings are subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Official Secrets Acts 1911 et seq. A person suspected of abusing a child would not be told who had reported their actions to Social Services or the police, especially where the suspect has a propensity for violence or is known to be violent. If the police or Social Services were to expose a well-meaning person to the risk of violence, the police officer or whoever in Social Services responsible for disclosing who has made a report would almost certainly face dismissal without notice as well as the very real possibility of prosecution.

If note the matter was reported to the police by Social Services, it will be someone from Social Services whose voice will be on the recording, not SC's.

In order to prosecute someone for the offences of Making A False Report, it would have to be shown that the alleged perpetrator did so intentionally and knew, at the time of doing so, that no crime had been committed. The offence of Wasteful Employment of Police is reserved more for false reports that waste a lot of public money and police manpower, e.g. a false allegation of rape, than a genuine call reporting a 10-month old child being physically-abused.

At this point in time, it is best not to inflame the situation, but to remain vigilant all the same, mainly for the welfare of SC's 10 month-old nephew. The incident SC's sister witnessed is very clear evidence that an Emergency Care Order is required to remove the child to a place o safety, albeit that there is nothing to prevent the police removing the child to a place of safety until an on-call social worker from the local Child Protection Team can attend and arrange temporary foster care.

I have say that I admire SC's courage in reporting the abuse and she should not let herself be intimidated by someone who is a control freak and bully.

[Captain Haddock]

Re: Advice required re anonymous tip off

What was the outcome of this??