Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

[rjharvey]

Hi Guys,

1st post for me, and apologies for how long it will be:

Ready?

A bit about me, I have 2 kids - 1 girl, 1 boy - with different mothers. I'm 24, and I was declared bankrupt in Feb 2013, due to reasons mainly to do with my girls mother.

Anyway I have a few issues so will go through separately.

Issue 1 - Daughters Mother

Right, so, after months of not seeing my daughter properly, she has said I can now see her every Saturday between the hours of 11am-5pm, when she knows I work at least 2 Saturdays a month, sometimes 3. As an example, I'm working this Saturday (which would be the 1st time I would be having my daughter), and I can't change it at all, having only had notice today, however, she will then say that that was my chance, and try and stop me seeing her again.
Secondly, she will and does already try and tell me that I can't do this and I can't do that with her, so I am looking for some kind of information and advice, as I am pretty sure that as I hold parental responsibility, she cannot stop me doing certain things (in this instance, introducing her to my girlfriend) - for which she will try and stop me seeing her again.

I have sent her a letter to say that I wanted her one evening a week after work to start with and take it from there, which is when I have had the situations mentioned above handed to me.

Now, with regards to CSA payments for my daughter, there is a backlog as I have been made redundant out of the last 2 permanent positions I have held, meaning lack of funds, as well as being declared bankrupt, but she has apparantly made a list of everything that i have done or spent money on in her eyes to try and use against me (Stalking me on FB/twitter/etc) - would this stand up in court if she tried to prevent me seeing my daughter? She can't afford to go to court anyway, but she tries to threaten it, but i'm not stupid like she seems to think.

Issue 2 - Sons Mother

Right here is another problem I have, my son was born in May 2011, and me and his mother broke up a few months later, from which point I have never had any contact whatsoever with him, as his mother told me she doesn't want him to know me, she doesn't want any money from me, and she had an affair in the relationship so he probably isn't mine. However, with regards to the CSA, they are now asking for money backdated from him, when I am infact arguing the toss saying that as she has stated this after the relationship has ended, it should be up to her to prove otherwise, because up until that point, I never doubted her at all. I am on his Birth Certificate, but obviously this is because I had no doubt that he was mine, then she dropped that bombshell out. She still maintains that she wants no contact with me ever and no money, yet is still happy for CSA to claim backpay! Money-grabbing *****!

Issue 3 - The CSA

Now, as I have already mentioned, I was declared bankrupt in Feb 2013. The CSA have sent me a letter dated 13/08/13, telling me they have now put in place a deduction of earnings order againt me for the next 12 months at a total cost of £4789.20 (which I have asked for proof of how they worked this out because they have my work history all messed up and I know that for a fact!), because I am working via an agency at the moment they are telling me they will be taking £109.84 for 36 weeks, 109.81 for 1 week, and then 14 of whatever other amount it is.
I don't live at home with parents, as that becomes untenable and there is no space, so I am in a house share with friends.

After tax at the moment, I seem to be picking up between £220-250 a week, and they seem to think that taking £109.84 out of that each week is acceptable for me to live?

If I break it down then over say a 4 week period it would be like this:

Wages (after tax) - £1000ish

Rent -£360
Car Insurance - £40 (£400)
Phone Bill - £40 (£440)
Petrol (for work) - £200 (£640)
CSA - £439.96 (£1079.36)

So this would leave with with absolutely nothing at all to live off, for food, clothing, other essentials?

Where do I stand on this?


I have written to them to explain my position but they haven't replied, and whenever I speak on the phone, all they are is condescending and trying to be arrogant. I mentioned to them many months ago about the financial difficulties I had facing me, but they were just concerned in getting as much out of me as they could. I've now explained that I have gone bankrupt, but they haven't responded.

Things are starting to get worse, and it is all now stressing me out as this has all just dropped on my doorstep in one foul swoop!

What can I do, what advice is there, what can I use, anything??

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for taking the time to read it if you got to this point.

Rob

[Inca]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

Hi and to LegalBeagles....How old is your daughter?
There are plenty of people on here who will be able to help you much better than I can,I'm sure one will be along soon.

[rjharvey]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

Hi and to LegalBeagles....How old is your daughter?
There are plenty of people on here who will be able to help you much better than I can,I'm sure one will be along soon.

My daughter has just gone 5! And thanks, hope I can get some help, because I'm on the verge of a breakdown right now, seriously!

[Sapphire]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

Hiya and welcome to the site,
First off, calm down, there's nothing to be gained by getting yourself in a stew.
I'm no expert but I will try to give you some help in blue.

Hi Guys,

1st post for me, and apologies for how long it will be:

Ready?

A bit about me, I have 2 kids - 1 girl, 1 boy - with different mothers. I'm 24, and I was declared bankrupt in Feb 2013, due to reasons mainly to do with my girls mother.

Anyway I have a few issues so will go through separately.

Issue 1 - Daughters Mother

Right, so, after months of not seeing my daughter properly, she has said I can now see her every Saturday between the hours of 11am-5pm, when she knows I work at least 2 Saturdays a month, sometimes 3. As an example, I'm working this Saturday (which would be the 1st time I would be having my daughter), and I can't change it at all, having only had notice today, however, she will then say that that was my chance, and try and stop me seeing her again.
Secondly, she will and does already try and tell me that I can't do this and I can't do that with her, so I am looking for some kind of information and advice, as I am pretty sure that as I hold parental responsibility, she cannot stop me doing certain things (in this instance, introducing her to my girlfriend) - for which she will try and stop me seeing her again.

I have sent her a letter to say that I wanted her one evening a week after work to start with and take it from there, which is when I have had the situations mentioned above handed to me.

Now, with regards to CSA payments for my daughter, there is a backlog as I have been made redundant out of the last 2 permanent positions I have held, meaning lack of funds, as well as being declared bankrupt, but she has apparantly made a list of everything that i have done or spent money on in her eyes to try and use against me (Stalking me on FB/twitter/etc) - would this stand up in court if she tried to prevent me seeing my daughter? She can't afford to go to court anyway, but she tries to threaten it, but i'm not stupid like she seems to think.

Your best bet with this will be to find a family lawyer and get a free consultation, you can find them in your area but going on google.
I know its inconvenient for you on Saturdays, but honestly do you think a 5 year old should be out in the evening when she should be tucked up in bed ? By getting a lawyer involved you will be able to arrange mutually agreeable hours and you can state your working hours etc. Once its done you're ex will have to abide by that.

Issue 2 - Sons Mother

Right here is another problem I have, my son was born in May 2011, and me and his mother broke up a few months later, from which point I have never had any contact whatsoever with him, as his mother told me she doesn't want him to know me, she doesn't want any money from me, and she had an affair in the relationship so he probably isn't mine. However, with regards to the CSA, they are now asking for money backdated from him, when I am infact arguing the toss saying that as she has stated this after the relationship has ended, it should be up to her to prove otherwise, because up until that point, I never doubted her at all. I am on his Birth Certificate, but obviously this is because I had no doubt that he was mine, then she dropped that bombshell out. She still maintains that she wants no contact with me ever and no money, yet is still happy for CSA to claim backpay! Money-grabbing *****!

As I read it, your not so sure that this child is yours, well then get a DNA test and find out for sure if he is yours or not, as above a good lawyer can help you deal with it.

Issue 3 - The CSA

Now, as I have already mentioned, I was declared bankrupt in Feb 2013. The CSA have sent me a letter dated 13/08/13, telling me they have now put in place a deduction of earnings order againt me for the next 12 months at a total cost of £4789.20 (which I have asked for proof of how they worked this out because they have my work history all messed up and I know that for a fact!), because I am working via an agency at the moment they are telling me they will be taking £109.84 for 36 weeks, 109.81 for 1 week, and then 14 of whatever other amount it is.
I don't live at home with parents, as that becomes untenable and there is no space, so I am in a house share with friends.

After tax at the moment, I seem to be picking up between £220-250 a week, and they seem to think that taking £109.84 out of that each week is acceptable for me to live?

If I break it down then over say a 4 week period it would be like this:

Wages (after tax) - £1000ish

Rent -£360
Car Insurance - £40 (£400)
Phone Bill - £40 (£440)
Petrol (for work) - £200 (£640)
CSA - £439.96 (£1079.36)

So this would leave with with absolutely nothing at all to live off, for food, clothing, other essentials?

Where do I stand on this?

I have written to them to explain my position but they haven't replied, and whenever I speak on the phone, all they are is condescending and trying to be arrogant. I mentioned to them many months ago about the financial difficulties I had facing me, but they were just concerned in getting as much out of me as they could. I've now explained that I have gone bankrupt, but they haven't responded.

Things are starting to get worse, and it is all now stressing me out as this has all just dropped on my doorstep in one foul swoop!

What can I do, what advice is there, what can I use, anything??

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for taking the time to read it if you got to this point.

Rob

Take a look at this link https://www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out/overview it will help you work out how much they actually can take from you, again the lawyer should be able to advise you.
If you cannot afford a lawyer they will be able to point you in the right direction to get further legal help.

Lastly and please don't take this the wrong way, but please consider using contraception in future if you don't want to have kids that you can either not afford or do not know if its yours.

[ruthie59]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

I joined LB a few months ago and it's the best decision I could have made. There are lots of knowledgeable people out there to point you in the right direction. Good luck.

[susannicola]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

I am so sorry to hear this about CSA i thought they had changed but it seems not, my daughter was nearly driven to a nervous breakdown through CSA her husband who was divorced when she met had 2 daughters aged 7 yrs and 6 yrs they paid each month but CSA kept increasing the payments till my daughter had hardly any money to live off we used to buy her groceries and clothe her little boy, her husband was told by a friend that the youngest child wasnt his and he was told the dads name he went to court blood tests done and all this time he had been paying for another mans child, i really hope you get things sorted as i know what the CSA is like blood suckers. take care.

[rjharvey]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

@Sapphire

Thank you for your reply, however, just a couple of points.

Everything you have mentioned is all well and good, but I have been declared Bankrupt, and I don't have the funds to be paying solicitors, lawyers, any kind of legal fees etc and cannot afford a DNA test. Understand that I have very little disposable income as it is, and I have to feed myself and purchase all the basic necessities for living with that.

With regards to contraception I understand the point, but do you think I predicted I would be made redundant from 2 jobs in succession? DO you think that I knew I wasn't the father before he was born? As i stated in my OP, I knew nothing about her 'affair' until after he was born!

[Inca]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

Unfortunately the mothers can and will make life as difficult as they can if you are not on friendly terms.
You really do need to take Sapphys advice and get proper legal advice,,especially where the parentage is doubted.
I have to say (sorry) but I totally agree with your girlfriend being kept out of the picture for the time being..you need to build a relationship between yourself and your daughter first.I can virtually guarantee your ex is expecting your g/f to babysit while you work on access days.
If you are really unsure that you are the boys father ,you need to sort out a DNA test and contact the CSA as soon as possible to tell them this is happening.
You need to keep a cool head in all this......as hard as that will be. It's a crying shame that children become pawns .so please,for your sake as well,,try and take the moral high ground and fight cleanly (even when that seems impossible).

[rjharvey]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

Unfortunately the mothers can and will make life as difficult as they can if you are not on friendly terms.
You really do need to take Sapphys advice and get proper legal advice,,especially where the parentage is doubted.
I have to say (sorry) but I totally agree with your girlfriend being kept out of the picture for the time being..you need to build a relationship between yourself and your daughter first.I can virtually guarantee your ex is expecting your g/f to babysit while you work on access days.
If you are really unsure that you are the boys father ,you need to sort out a DNA test and contact the CSA as soon as possible to tell them this is happening.
You need to keep a cool head in all this......as hard as that will be. It's a crying shame that children become pawns .so please,for your sake as well,,try and take the moral high ground and fight cleanly (even when that seems impossible).

I understand it all, I really have not got any funds to do it with though?

My point about my girlfriend is that my ex can't stop me from taking my daughter to see her can she? She can voice her opinion, but she can't stop me! (I won't do that initially anyway, I will be building me and my daughters relationship back up)

[Sapphire]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

Hiya

Yes I do remember that you've been made bankrupt and indeed have no spare funds, that is why I suggested googling a family lawyer that gives the first consultation free, that way you can get some advice, and hopefully they will point you in the direction of being able to gain further representation under your circumstances.

Re the remark about contraception, yes I agree no one goes into a relationship intending it to split up, but as I said maybe just a little more consideration for what could happen in the future would be an idea. I do however think that you do need to find out who is the rightful father as I can see this is eating you up and that's not fair is it ?

No you're ex can't actually stop you introducing your daughter to your girlfriend, but she can make things very, very awkward for you and think about it another way, how would you feel if your ex introduced your daughter to a new boyfriend ? Perhaps it won't bother you that much, but it sure is confusing for a five year old and that five year old has emotions, she has feelings, and she is also a human being, she is not a pawn to be used in a human game of chess. Therefore I respectfully suggest that you take a long hard think and consider the repercussions before introducing her to a 'girlfriend' until said 'girlfriend' becomes at least a fiance, live in partner or even better your wife.

[Celestine]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

Families Need Fathers www.fnf.org.uk

[rjharvey]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

Hiya

Yes I do remember that you've been made bankrupt and indeed have no spare funds, that is why I suggested googling a family lawyer that gives the first consultation free, that way you can get some advice, and hopefully they will point you in the direction of being able to gain further representation under your circumstances.

Re the remark about contraception, yes I agree no one goes into a relationship intending it to split up, but as I said maybe just a little more consideration for what could happen in the future would be an idea. I do however think that you do need to find out who is the rightful father as I can see this is eating you up and that's not fair is it ?

No you're ex can't actually stop you introducing your daughter to your girlfriend, but she can make things very, very awkward for you and think about it another way, how would you feel if your ex introduced your daughter to a new boyfriend ? Perhaps it won't bother you that much, but it sure is confusing for a five year old and that five year old has emotions, she has feelings, and she is also a human being, she is not a pawn to be used in a human game of chess. Therefore I respectfully suggest that you take a long hard think and consider the repercussions before introducing her to a 'girlfriend' until said 'girlfriend' becomes at least a fiance, live in partner or even better your wife.

Thank you for replying, sorry that I was a bit snappy back towards you, it's all just getting on top of me now.
With regards to the girlfriend situation, I agree totally, in terms of it happening the other way round, my ex now has a fiancé and another baby with him, so I've seen how it affects her. I will take my time in introducing her.

With regards to solicitors etc, every one that I've contacted so far has said that I need to take money in upfront before I get the free consultation, so i keep hitting brick walls with that?

[MissFM]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

Hello rjharvey

Like everyone else on here I would love to help you and your estranged family. All the posts above provide sterling advice IMHO. I would, though, like to add the following, just in case it helps, (wish it were more:hug.

Splitting things into separate issues:

- the most important one is the welfare of your child(ren), as you have said. I would get the CAFCASS officer involved, urgently. The level of contact you have and how that is achieved has nothing to do with how much maintenance you can afford - it is purely (luckily also from the legal point of view) to do with the best interests of the child. Children are not chattels to be bought and sold and bargained over, so even if you can only pay the CSA (see later) the bare minimum, that is completely irrelevant as to how much contact you have and how it is arranged.

- I would definitely keep your present girlfriend well out of this, as advised above. Should that prove problematic then you really do have to make the decision as to whether your daughter is important enough to you - etc.. You must try to keep things amicable for your daughter's sake and respect her mother's wishes, which are likely to be to do with your daughter's welfare however it might seem.

- https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance/dna-tests More links, sorry - but you need to know whether or not the other child is yours

- https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance Check this and appeal if you think it unfair (what you're paying doesn't look correct to me FWIW). All the links are there.

- http://www.nationalprobonocentre.org.uk/ may help for free legal advice, which you clearly need. Another route would be to approach a local University and see if any senior law students who wish to specialise in Family Law would like to help you for experience and for free

I wish you so much good luck. You are much too young to have all this on your shoulders x

[wales01man]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

From someone who never had the problems you have I have to say,Get a DNA test if your in doubt get advice about access and sort out payments above all one maybe both are your children arguing and giving grief to the mothers and getting it back is not nice for the children,i can see why you might get snappy but everone on here wants to get your problems sorted for your sake and the children

[Inca]

Re: Kids, their mothers, the CSA, my rights!

C.A.B is useful for information too.
By the way,,is your daughters Mum on benefits?? If she is,it's more than likely that she didn't put the CSA on to you,they swoop themselves. I refused to allow them to interfere in my life so worked to avoid going on benefits and having to deal with them AND a stroppy ex.