Access to my daughter - family court guidance?

**Celestine** · 14th June 2011, 22:13:PM

Re: Access to my daughter - family court guidance?

Hi Dadof2

A warm welcome to Legal Beagles :beagle:

OK, big issues at play here. Firstly, Have a good read of this thread:

Advice on shared parenting - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

I would advise you to try and take a similar approach. Play for the long game.

Now, whilst you're reading that, I'll have a look at your post in detail and address some of your questions directly.

**Celestine** · 14th June 2011, 22:24:PM

Re: Access to my daughter - family court guidance?

Hoping this forum can help as I am at a loss. I have a young baby and I am not with her mum, we split when she first got pregnant. How long had you been together, relationship history?At the moment, I have very limited access to baby. Just 3 hours on a Sunday Unsupervised, what circumstances?.. ideally I would like mid week access and whole days at a time at the weekend, building up to over night / whole weekend visits. Sounds like a reasonable plan

However the mum really doesn't want me to have anything to do with the baby Why? Has she said anything apart from the breast feeding reasonsand is making it as difficult as possible, she is very manipulative and is saying I can't have any more access as breast feeding comes first and she can't express. She intends to breast feed until the baby is at least 2. Two!! The norm would be to BF till 6 months old, after that baby needs solids, so weaning should start, no child would be exclusively BF till 2! Some parents continue BF after that, but usually only as a supplement to the main diet. e.g. bedtimes, so this sounds like an excuse!!

I have attending 2 mediation sessions, Good, even if it didn't work, it demonstrates your willingness to try and resolve issuesbut its feels pointless - the session today she agreed to increase access by 30 minutes,(good, small steps) but refused point blank to agree to sign the parental agreement form. Do you mean Parental Responsibility form?

If I go to court... what will the judges likely take on breastfeeding for a baby that is 9 months old? This would be unlikely to be allowed as a primary reason to deny access

For more background, I have an elder daughter (by a different woman) who is seven and lives with me most of the time, approx 8-9 days in 14. We have a strong tight bond. So I am a proven father. Excellent, whats your relationship like with her mum?

What do people think - should I fight through court (for parental agreement at least) or just accept such restricted access? Neither necessarily, you could slowly mend this situation yourself. It can be done. But in any case, if you do go to court, you need to demonstrate a history of reliability, co-operation, supportiveness.

**dadof2** · 14th June 2011, 22:51:PM

Re: Access to my daughter - family court guidance?

Hi Celestine,

Thanks for the prompt response and showing an interest, I really appreciate it.

How long had you been together, relationship history? To be honest it was little more than a one night stand, about a two week relationship.

Unsupervised, what circumstances? I collect her and drop her off, sometimes I take her to my mums (5 mins away), sometimes out on trips.. swimming, country park , sea front etc...or my house , I have done out a bedroom for her etc. But I live about a 20 min drive away, so its quite restrictive. This was just 2 hours prior to mediation , her solicitor referred us to mediation in January, however she dragged her feet for 5 months then her attutide during mediation was very negative.

Why? Has she said anything apart from the breast feeding reasons Just little comments all the time "why am I so interested in seeing the baby" "she is better off without me" "we come has a package" Plus the fact she won't agree to signing the parental responsibility form - she doesn't see why I am so interested in it. She is also starting to claim that I have been putting her under too much pressure, where prior to mediation i would ask for increased access.

Two!! The norm would be to BF till 6 months old, after that baby needs solids, so weaning should start, no child would be exclusively BF till 2! Some parents continue BF after that, but usually only as a supplement to the main diet. e.g. bedtimes, so this sounds like an excuse!!
Erin is on solids, i feed her on sunday afternoons. Yes I beleive its an excuse. She has recently returned to work, 2 shifts a week. One shift is 12 hours. Apparantly her mother takes baby to her work in her lunch break so she can breastfeed. Her mum lives 8 miles away and doesn't drive........

Erin is always fine with me, never cries or pines for food. She is very clingy round her mother though, who i feel smothers her. they sleep in same bed, eat of same plate, the moment she grumbles she runs to pick her up. Although when we are in the same company (after i drop her off on sunday i stay there for a further hour) , Erin will climb towards me just as much as her mum.

Good, even if it didn't work, it demonstrates your willingness to try and resolve issues Hopefully, the mediator sympathised with my plight. My gut feeling in the months whilst i was waiting for mediation that she wasn't entering into the process in the right spirit.. but at great cost and patience I knew it was worth trying.

Do you mean Parental Responsibility form? yes - sorry!

This would be unlikely to be allowed as a primary reason to deny access But what would a judges take be, would i get 5-6 hours at a time (at least) , would he be supportive of an overnight stay. My eldest daughter keeps asking when she will get to stay over and i feel its will really help their bonding process.

Excellent, whats your relationship like with her mum? good, we both dedicate our lives to Lotties up bringing. we have a good understanding.

Neither necessarily, you could slowly mend this situation yourself. It can be done. But in any case, if you do go to court, you need to demonstrate a history of reliability, co-operation, supportiveness. I beleive I can 100%, I am paying maintenance, supported the mediation process (bought xmas , mothers day gifts , bought nappies etc. But she will twist everything in her favour, its this what frightens me. I need to see my daughter, its time I will never get back.

Even if she had a positive attitude towards the parental responsibility form, maybe i could find a way to be more patient.. but this attitude just makes me think court is inevitable?

The 4 weeks between the two mediation meetings, everything went well, I did all that was asked.. but then all i get is an extra 30 minutes on a sunday (now 3 and a half hours).

Really at a loss as to what to do.,.. but i will start by reading the info in that link you provided.

Thanks again

Matt

**Celestine** · 16th June 2011, 19:27:PM

Re: Access to my daughter - family court guidance?

How long had you been together, relationship history? To be honest it was little more than a one night stand, about a two week relationship.
OK, how were things left between you? How was it during the pregnancy? Did you buy stuff for the baby?

Unsupervised, what circumstances? I collect her and drop her off, sometimes I take her to my mums (5 mins away), sometimes out on trips.. swimming, country park , sea front etc...or my house , I have done out a bedroom for her etc. But I live about a 20 min drive away, so its quite restrictive. This was just 2 hours prior to mediation , her solicitor referred us to mediation in January, however she dragged her feet for 5 months then her attutide during mediation was very negative.
Excellent, you are building up GOOD precedent. How has the feeding been managed to date? How old was Erin when you first started taking her? You must have had to give her bottles? Of what, if she's not expressing?
She will be negative towards mediation, if she has decided you are a 'threat'. You have to do everything to demonstrate that you wholeheartedly support her and believe you BOTH have a valuable role to play in your daughters life.
THIS CAN TAKE A LONG TIME. BUT, inching up the time you have with Erin means that it will be very hard for a Judge to ever deny that to you.

Why? Has she said anything apart from the breast feeding reasons Just little comments all the time "why am I so interested in seeing the baby" "she is better off without me" "we come has a package" (There's your problem!!

) Plus the fact she won't agree to signing the parental responsibility form - she doesn't see why I am so interested in it. She is also starting to claim that I have been putting her under too much pressure, where prior to mediation i would ask for increased access.
You probably are making her feel a bit pressured because you are desperate to have more time with your baby, but sadly, unless the relationship is rekindled, this will happen very slowly, as your ex learns to trust you and realise you are there to support her and your daughter. Getting an hour increase is a small step in the right direction, especially with such a young baby, next step will be overnight stays or all day

Two!! The norm would be to BF till 6 months old, after that baby needs solids, so weaning should start, no child would be exclusively BF till 2! Some parents continue BF after that, but usually only as a supplement to the main diet. e.g. bedtimes, so this sounds like an excuse!!
Erin is on solids, i feed her on sunday afternoons. Yes I beleive its an excuse. She has recently returned to work, 2 shifts a week. One shift is 12 hours. Apparantly her mother takes baby to her work in her lunch break so she can breastfeed. Her mum lives 8 miles away and doesn't drive........

Ahhh ok, I see how you're feeding Erin, so no milk at all?? She must be exclusively breastfeeding then, do you know if Erin can take any fluids from a bottle? Has she ever had formula? And, yes, her job does rather diminish the likelihood that she is breastfeeding exclusively!

Erin is always fine with me, never cries or pines for food. She is very clingy round her mother though, who i feel smothers her. they sleep in same bed, eat of same plate, the moment she grumbles she runs to pick her up. Although when we are in the same company (after i drop her off on sunday i stay there for a further hour) , Erin will climb towards me just as much as her mum.
Interesting, so you must all get on ok?
OK, STOP comparing parenting! I'm sure mum loves Erin very much and maybe is a bit OTT, (quite common for a 1st timer!) But the moment you go down this path with an ex, you're doomed. Unless you observe abuse and neglect, ignore everything else. You're one type of parent, she is another. It breaks my heart the number of people who fail to recognise this fundamental right we each have to be the parent WE want to be. This is where you can start unlocking yourself from the negative cycle, it is fantastic that Erin is equally bonded with her parents, celebrate that, not the differences.

Good, even if it didn't work, it demonstrates your willingness to try and resolve issues Hopefully, the mediator sympathised with my plight. My gut feeling in the months whilst i was waiting for mediation that she wasn't entering into the process in the right spirit.. but at great cost and patience I knew it was worth trying.

Do you mean Parental Responsibility form? yes - sorry!
I seriously wouldn't focus on this now, way too early, you'll just frighten her off. Wait till you've got some firm routines, some trust and ask for it at a later date, it's a needless complexity right now.

This would be unlikely to be allowed as a primary reason to deny access But what would a judges take be, would i get 5-6 hours at a time (at least) , would he be supportive of an overnight stay. My eldest daughter keeps asking when she will get to stay over and i feel its will really help their bonding process.
To get this before a Judge would take several months and at least 10k. You need statements, a CAFCASS officers report and assessment and lots of wrangling. ANYTHING you can do to avoid the court route, try. Only as a very last resort should you 'go legal'. If you are trying to speed up the process of getting longer access to your daughter, the legal route probably won't help, plus you and your ex will become mortal enemies in the process.

Excellent, whats your relationship like with her mum? good, we both dedicate our lives to Lotties up bringing. we have a good understanding.
Cool, only strengthens your case. (should we get to that)

Neither necessarily, you could slowly mend this situation yourself. It can be done. But in any case, if you do go to court, you need to demonstrate a history of reliability, co-operation, supportiveness. I beleive I can 100%, I am paying maintenance, supported the mediation process (bought xmas , mothers day gifts , bought nappies etc. But she will twist everything in her favour, its this what frightens me. I need to see my daughter, its time I will never get back.

I agree in the time you can never get back, but you are investing in all the time you will have together in the future. On all the practical things you do to support your daughter, fantastic, you have all the tools you need to gain decent access.

Even if she had a positive attitude towards the parental responsibility form, maybe i could find a way to be more patient.. but this attitude just makes me think court is inevitable?

The 4 weeks between the two mediation meetings, everything went well, I did all that was asked.. but then all i get is an extra 30 minutes on a sunday (now 3 and a half hours).
This will merely be because your daughter is so young. Personally I'd ask to have a mediation session every three months to keep communication positive and to gradually build up your time with Erin.

Really at a loss as to what to do.,.. but i will start by reading the info in that link you provided.

What's your thoughts on that thread? Did it give you any ideas?

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**dadof2** · 16th June 2011, 22:11:PM

Re: Access to my daughter - family court guidance?

Hi Celestine,

Thanks for your reply, it has really helped - along with the other thread. The theme coming through is to be patient. I had a good couple of hours with Erin today, which was great - I took her swimming.

How long had you been together, relationship history? To be honest it was little more than a one night stand, about a two week relationship.
OK, how were things left between you? How was it during the pregnancy? Did you buy stuff for the baby? Didn't buy stuff, but offered - was difficult during this time as didn't know 100% that Erin was mine.

Unsupervised, what circumstances? I collect her and drop her off, sometimes I take her to my mums (5 mins away), sometimes out on trips.. swimming, country park , sea front etc...or my house , I have done out a bedroom for her etc. But I live about a 20 min drive away, so its quite restrictive. This was just 2 hours prior to mediation , her solicitor referred us to mediation in January, however she dragged her feet for 5 months then her attutide during mediation was very negative.
Excellent, you are building up GOOD precedent. How has the feeding been managed to date? How old was Erin when you first started taking her? You must have had to give her bottles? Of what, if she's not expressing?
She will be negative towards mediation, if she has decided you are a 'threat'. You have to do everything to demonstrate that you wholeheartedly support her and believe you BOTH have a valuable role to play in your daughters life.
THIS CAN TAKE A LONG TIME. BUT, inching up the time you have with Erin means that it will be very hard for a Judge to ever deny that to you.

I know what you are saying and I am leaning more towards the waiting game, however it does feel like a kind of gamble I am not a threat at all, but I think it helps her justify things by thinking that I am . I feel like her and her family try and antagonise me. She 'can't express' but I give her food, that she has to supply. Once I gave her some fruit and wasn't allowed to see her for 3 weeks.

Why? Has she said anything apart from the breast feeding reasons Just little comments all the time "why am I so interested in seeing the baby" "she is better off without me" "we come has a package" (There's your problem!!

) Plus the fact she won't agree to signing the parental responsibility form - she doesn't see why I am so interested in it. She is also starting to claim that I have been putting her under too much pressure, where prior to mediation i would ask for increased access.
You probably are making her feel a bit pressured because you are desperate to have more time with your baby, but sadly, unless the relationship is rekindled, this will happen very slowly, as your ex learns to trust you and realise you are there to support her and your daughter. Getting an hour increase is a small step in the right direction, especially with such a young baby, next step will be overnight stays or all day

Its very hard though/

Two!! The norm would be to BF till 6 months old, after that baby needs solids, so weaning should start, no child would be exclusively BF till 2! Some parents continue BF after that, but usually only as a supplement to the main diet. e.g. bedtimes, so this sounds like an excuse!!
Erin is on solids, i feed her on sunday afternoons. Yes I beleive its an excuse. She has recently returned to work, 2 shifts a week. One shift is 12 hours. Apparantly her mother takes baby to her work in her lunch break so she can breastfeed. Her mum lives 8 miles away and doesn't drive........

Ahhh ok, I see how you're feeding Erin, so no milk at all?? She must be exclusively breastfeeding then, do you know if Erin can take any fluids from a bottle? Has she ever had formula? And, yes, her job does rather diminish the likelihood that she is breastfeeding exclusively!

Yes exclusively breast feeding, she told the mediator that she can't express. Not sure about the bottle, not that I have seen. She drinks juice / water ok. I suspect she eats quite a lot of solids, but goes on the breast for comfort.

Erin is always fine with me, never cries or pines for food. She is very clingy round her mother though, who i feel smothers her. they sleep in same bed, eat of same plate, the moment she grumbles she runs to pick her up. Although when we are in the same company (after i drop her off on sunday i stay there for a further hour) , Erin will climb towards me just as much as her mum.
Interesting, so you must all get on ok? Well yeah, we got on ok - spent an hour together last sunday. Had mediation on Monday, I started by speaking her up (showing support etc) and that things had gone well since last meeting. Saying, that despite differences or access, we do share alot of the same views to parenting. But she was all very negative and started shouting at the mediator at one point.
OK, STOP comparing parenting! I'm sure mum loves Erin very much and maybe is a bit OTT, (quite common for a 1st timer!) But the moment you go down this path with an ex, you're doomed. Unless you observe abuse and neglect, ignore everything else. You're one type of parent, she is another. It breaks my heart the number of people who fail to recognise this fundamental right we each have to be the parent WE want to be. This is where you can start unlocking yourself from the negative cycle, it is fantastic that Erin is equally bonded with her parents, celebrate that, not the differences.

Not comparing parenting, just wanted to demonstrate that there is a strong bond developing. I love the way Erin is with her mum, I comment when I am with them. But thats the thing isn't it, Erin needs both of us for different things.

The point I wanted to make about the smothering aspects, its fine for her to do this - her decisoin, first child etc. However I fear this will lead to Erin being very clingy as she gets older which will make it harder if over night separation hasn't happened when she is younger i.e if Erin is only allowed to stay with me over night when she is 2 (after breast feeding has stopped). It really does worry me this.

Good, even if it didn't work, it demonstrates your willingness to try and resolve issues Hopefully, the mediator sympathised with my plight. My gut feeling in the months whilst i was waiting for mediation that she wasn't entering into the process in the right spirit.. but at great cost and patience I knew it was worth trying.

Do you mean Parental Responsibility form? yes - sorry!
I seriously wouldn't focus on this now, way too early, you'll just frighten her off. Wait till you've got some firm routines, some trust and ask for it at a later date, it's a needless complexity right now.

Really ? Thats good to here.. It has always felt important and if the mother is asking me to wait for a decent level of access, I thought it would be a nice gesture of her to agree.

This would be unlikely to be allowed as a primary reason to deny access But what would a judges take be, would i get 5-6 hours at a time (at least) , would he be supportive of an overnight stay. My eldest daughter keeps asking when she will get to stay over and i feel its will really help their bonding process.
To get this before a Judge would take several months and at least 10k. You need statements, a CAFCASS officers report and assessment and lots of wrangling. ANYTHING you can do to avoid the court route, try. Only as a very last resort should you 'go legal'. If you are trying to speed up the process of getting longer access to your daughter, the legal route probably won't help, plus you and your ex will become mortal enemies in the process.

Didn't realise it was that complicated? I thought I just had to complete a couple of forms, pay £200 and then it would go to court.

Excellent, whats your relationship like with her mum? good, we both dedicate our lives to Lotties up bringing. we have a good understanding.
Cool, only strengthens your case. (should we get to that)

Neither necessarily, you could slowly mend this situation yourself. It can be done. But in any case, if you do go to court, you need to demonstrate a history of reliability, co-operation, supportiveness. I beleive I can 100%, I am paying maintenance, supported the mediation process (bought xmas , mothers day gifts , bought nappies etc. But she will twist everything in her favour, its this what frightens me. I need to see my daughter, its time I will never get back.

I agree in the time you can never get back, but you are investing in all the time you will have together in the future. On all the practical things you do to support your daughter, fantastic, you have all the tools you need to gain decent access.

A good way to look at it, gives me a different perspective that.

Even if she had a positive attitude towards the parental responsibility form, maybe i could find a way to be more patient.. but this attitude just makes me think court is inevitable?

The 4 weeks between the two mediation meetings, everything went well, I did all that was asked.. but then all i get is an extra
30 minutes on a sunday (now 3 and a half hours).
This will merely be because your daughter is so young. Personally I'd ask to have a mediation session every three months to keep communication positive and to gradually build up your time with Erin. There is one booked for early september.

Really at a loss as to what to do.,.. but i will start by reading the info in that link you provided.

What's your thoughts on that thread? Did it give you any ideas? Yes absolutely, can emphasise with what Liam is/has/will go through - but what I got most out of it was to play the long game and just do the right things, trusting that it will eventually pay off.

Even when I collected Erin today, I got chatting to one of her neighbours - who told me that the mother will eventually come round. Which was kinda nice.

On a lighter note, Erin generally gets dressed in nice clothes. However she gets dressed with an absolutely ghastly jacket. What should I do, should I mention it? But a decent one? Do nothing and bite tongue? lol

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Access to my daughter - family court guidance?

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