Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

[pboro]

Hi,
I'm wondering if someone could advise me of where I stand please in regards to being suspended on full pay for refusing to have an on the spot disciplinary meeting about sickness absence? I will give a brief outline below of the events/facts:

Around 8 months service (Not great I know!)
No prior warning about absence (Absence is less than 14 days over different periods, all verifiable, no company sick pay so pointless to swing the lead from my perspective).
Called in for a meeting on my day off, wouldn't tell me what the meeting was for despite being asked, asked the employer if it was serious and if so do I need a witness (they categorically stated no).
Arrived at the meeting shortly after the phone call, still not told what it was for, they eventually said it was about my absence so I had to ask if it was a disciplinary (Minutes confirm this).
At this point I told them this was completely unfair, I had no written notice, no knowledge of the potential outcome, no chance to see the evidence to defend myself and no opportunity to bring a witness.
They said I could get a colleague, I said no I want my trade union rep, to which they replied they don't recognize them. (Breach of employment relations act 1999, breach of contract which clearly states I can have a trade rep and any disciplinary will be given written notice prior to the meeting along with evidence. Disciplinary procedure appears to be contractual, no disclaimer noted).
At this point I told them the meeting was over because you are denying my rights and not following your own procedure.
Later in the evening received a letter stuffed in my door telling me I was suspended on full pay and I had to come for another meeting in what amounted to 1 working day, still no evidence for me to examine and a new charge of gross misconduct for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting.
Wrote a letter stating they hadn't followed their procedure, attempted to deny my statutory right to a trade rep, again failed to give me evidence and that 1 working day is insufficient notice to arrange representation.
I've had no response since 1 week.

The haste in which they acted leads me to suspect the outcome was predetermined, reinforced by the fact my position appears to be advertised online (although they could argue they are recruiting anyway). Another point to note is the fact that I don't have the highest sickness absence on my team, let alone the whole company so how can this be fair? Furthermore how can they call my refusal of a disciplinary due to my statutory and contractual rights gross misconduct?

Any help appreciated!

[MIKE770]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

length of time minimum limit for employment cover? still the norm i.e. 2 years? absence regularly absent (not fit for job), pre-determined (Hearsay)?


sure peeps will be along soon, ? lot of questions a lot of answers not liked maybe but may be fact??? see what is said on here next?

[pboro]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

length of time minimum limit for employment cover? still the norm i.e. 2 years? absence regularly absent (not fit for job), pre-determined (Hearsay)?


sure peeps will be along soon, ? lot of questions a lot of answers not liked maybe but may be fact??? see what is said on here next?

I'm not disputing being ill, although I don't think 2 chest infections makes me unfit for the job. The dispute is the fact my employer attempted to deny my statutory rights and didn't follow their own contractual procedures.

[MIKE770]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

unless I missed it no mention of 2 chet infections in para 1 above, employment law and time scales regarding rights etc ? sure somebody will know and respond, meantime kep looking for another job, as I would not want to work for a company if as you say treated workers like that may be?

but alterior motives these days!¬ another subject.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/worker


https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-...tive-dismissal


Just for reference:-

Generally, you must have been continuously employed with the same employer for a period of 23 months and 3 weeks (and not already be under notice which expires before 2 years) in order to bring a claim. This is unless your case falls within one of the few exceptions where no minimum service is required (i.e. where it relates to discrimination).
If you can show that your employer has fundamentally acted in a way that makes your position untenable and goes to the root of your employment relationship, your claim may well succeed. You should note that the onus is on you to prove that your employer was in breach. This differs from unfair dismissal claims where your employer has to prove that there has been a fair dismissal.
Certainly the examples listed above are capable of amounting to a good claim. Many cases will be obvious, and others will be more of a grey area. Yes, your employer may have behaved badly, but was it so bad to amount that it makes your ongoing position untenable? If the matter reached the tribunal stage, it will be determined on its own facts, and what is considered reasonable.

[pboro]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

unless I missed it no mention of 2 chet infections in para 1 above, employment law and time scales regarding rights etc ? sure somebody will know and respond, meantime kep looking for another job, as I would not want to work for a company if as you say treated workers like that may be?

but alterior motives these days!¬ another subject.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/worker


https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-...tive-dismissal

Cheers Mike, no you didn't miss it, I hadn't written it so you are entirely correct. I concur, the solution is to find a new job, I just find the whole situation appalling and yes I'm not the first to fall foul of their lack of disciplinary procedures.

[ULA]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

Your length of employment is an issue as you have less than 2 years service. There are certain circumstances where with less than 2 years service a dismissal would be automatically unfair but from your post it does not seem that this would apply. So if ultimately you are dismissed there will be little you can do about it.

It is advised that even if an employee has less than 2 years service that an employer follows a fair process to dismiss but often this does not happen and I would say from what you have said this is not the case in your circumstances. You can try to bring them back on track to follow a fair process but ultimately this may not result in your remaining in their employment.

[pboro]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

Your length of employment is an issue as you have less than 2 years service. There are certain circumstances where with less than 2 years service a dismissal would be automatically unfair but from your post it does not seem that this would apply. So if ultimately you are dismissed there will be little you can do about it.

It is advised that even if an employee has less than 2 years service that an employer follows a fair process to dismiss but often this does not happen and I would say from what you have said this is not the case in your circumstances. You can try to bring them back on track to follow a fair process but ultimately this may not result in your remaining in their employment.

Hi Ula and thanks for the reply. Would you say this still applies if the disciplinary procedure is contractual? From what I'm reading they've completely ignored their own terms and as stated there is no disclaimer saying it is not contractual. If this is the case then surely it is at least breach of contract?

[ULA]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

It is not often I come across a company makes it's disciplinary process contractual. Can you post up either by copying or uploading a redacted copy of the relevant section that leads you to believe that it is a contractual process? I can then advise accordingly.

[pboro]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

Hi Ula, sorry for the delay getting back to you. I've attached what is written in my contract re the dispute, at no point is there a disclaimer anywhere in the entire contract that the disciplinary procedure is non contractual.

[ULA]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

In the main body of your contract how does it refer to this Appendix 3? Sorry just trying to make sure whether this is a contractual or non-contractual procedure.

If it is contractual then they do refer in page 2 under the section Short Service that they reserve the right to "truncate the process" in its own right or where they believe "that warnings or further training will not lead to sufficient or sustained improvement". They go on to say they may also consider dismissal, however there is an inference with the final paragraph that any action would be taken once a disciplinary hearing has taken place. Which in your situation has not happened by giving you adequate notice and time to prepare for the meeting with any documentation they are going to rely on and for you to arrange a work colleague or TU rep to accompany you if you so wished.

[pboro]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

Morning Ula and thanks for the reply again. There is only one further mention of appendix 3 within the entire contract, please see the photo and apologies for the quality! I'm aware they are entitled to truncate the procedure but surely that doesn't give them the right to deny my statutory rights or give them carte blanche to not provide me with any notice or evidence prior to a meeting? Also do they not have to follow a basic procedure set out by the Employment Act 2008 and the ACAS Code of Practice (April 2009) regardless of what it says re truncation in the contract?

[Disillusioned]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

It is not often I come across a company makes it's disciplinary process contractual.

It was contractual in my case as well but that didnt stop the company from breaching the disciplinary process over 30 times to dismiss me.

[ULA]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

The ACAS Code of Practice 2009 was replaced by the new code in March 2015 which sets out a basic procedure to be followed, however you do not have two years service. Although good practice says they should follow a fair procedure by inviting an employee in writing to a formal meeting detailing the allegations; advising that this meeting might result in dismissal; give the right to be accompanied and advise that they will have an opportunity to respond to what is said, not all companies will do this for employees with less than 2 years service.

Your only argument at this point is that the disciplinary process is contractual and that they should at the very least follow a truncated process as detailed in Appendix 3 of the statement.

[pboro]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

It was contractual in my case as well but that didnt stop the company from breaching the disciplinary process over 30 times to dismiss me.

Hi Disillusioned, did you get anywhere with it? If you don't mind me asking of course.

[pboro]

Re: Suspended for refusing to have a disciplinary meeting

The ACAS Code of Practice 2009 was replaced by the new code in March 2015 which sets out a basic procedure to be followed, however you do not have two years service. Although good practice says they should follow a fair procedure by inviting an employee in writing to a formal meeting detailing the allegations; advising that this meeting might result in dismissal; give the right to be accompanied and advise that they will have an opportunity to respond to what is said, not all companies will do this for employees with less than 2 years service.

Your only argument at this point is that the disciplinary process is contractual and that they should at the very least follow a truncated process as detailed in Appendix 3 of the statement.

Cheers Ula, yes it looks like this is my only defence. I was actually due to attend a meeting but they didn't see fit to inform me in time, basically the notification letter requesting my presence arrived after the meeting had passed. This is the level of ridiculousness I'm dealing with here!