Placed in Consultation, yet they have advertised on there own website for my Job

[AllenTaylor72]

Hi all, just needing a little help.

three weeks ago, i was called into a meeting to discuss new routes and rota`s. When i arrived i was greeted by our manager, and also the head of HR
They showed me a copy of the new routes and rota, and then explained to me that they do not think i can achive this in a 40 hour working week, so are going to look to make redundant. In that same meeting they admitted they would be looking to hire someone else closer to some of the sites we do.

In the mean time they have given all of my sites that are on my doorstep to someone else. I have checked there vacancy website each day, in hope that maybe something else may come up, and tonight i check and actually see my own job advertised posted today.

During the consultation meetings i have offered several suggestions, such as trialling the area for a few weeks. as it is only an additional 20 miles journey to what i have already been doing for the last 4 years.
Other suggestions we possibly relocating 30 miles north of current location, even though i still have plenty of work in my own area. Apart from they have given it all to someone else who now drives over 2 hours, to service a site 500 meters from my home.

I have spoken to a solicitor, but as you can imagine they start getting expensive. He has suggested that this is not redundancy, as my job is not redundant, if it still needs to be done.

i hve now been told that in my final meeting which is 31st January, to decline the offer of redundancy as it will affect me from taking it to a tribunal ? What is the procedure on the day they tell me my job is redundant ? Do i have to accept what they say. Will it affect me appealing if i agree to redundacny ?? Very confused right now.

Any help would be appreciated, and if you need some more information i can gladly give more.

Thanks in advance

Allen

[Sangie595]

Re: Placed in Consultation, yet they have advertised on there own website for my Job

Hi all, just needing a little help.

three weeks ago, i was called into a meeting to discuss new routes and rota`s. When i arrived i was greeted by our manager, and also the head of HR
They showed me a copy of the new routes and rota, and then explained to me that they do not think i can achive this in a 40 hour working week, so are going to look to make redundant. In that same meeting they admitted they would be looking to hire someone else closer to some of the sites we do.

In the mean time they have given all of my sites that are on my doorstep to someone else. I have checked there vacancy website each day, in hope that maybe something else may come up, and tonight i check and actually see my own job advertised posted today.

During the consultation meetings i have offered several suggestions, such as trialling the area for a few weeks. as it is only an additional 20 miles journey to what i have already been doing for the last 4 years.
Other suggestions we possibly relocating 30 miles north of current location, even though i still have plenty of work in my own area. Apart from they have given it all to someone else who now drives over 2 hours, to service a site 500 meters from my home.

I have spoken to a solicitor, but as you can imagine they start getting expensive. He has suggested that this is not redundancy, as my job is not redundant, if it still needs to be done.

i hve now been told that in my final meeting which is 31st January, to decline the offer of redundancy as it will affect me from taking it to a tribunal ? What is the procedure on the day they tell me my job is redundant ? Do i have to accept what they say. Will it affect me appealing if i agree to redundacny ?? Very confused right now.

Any help would be appreciated, and if you need some more information i can gladly give more.

Thanks in advance

Allen

Just because work still needs to be done does not mean there isn't a redundancy. Any lawyer who doesn't know that was wasting your money.

The purpose of your consultation period is to raise all these questions, issues and suggestions formally, and to get answers to these. You should do so again (and raise anything you haven't so far done) in writing and immediately before your meeting. Ask for written responses.

You haven't mentioned whether there are others jobs the same or similar to yours and whether there was a selection method employed. Was there?

Although you should cover all points you query, if the job advertised is exactly the same as yours- same terms, same location etc- then that is the one to focus on. The other things I would emphasise is willingness to relocate to where the work is; and also selection methods for the choice of your job if there are others doing the same job.

You do not accept or reject redundancy - it isn't an offer! The employer is making you redundant. You must then appeal. Make all your arguments again.

Make sure that you keep an evidence trail - including dated copies of the job advert.

If they then cannot explain to your satisfaction the answers to your points, you have the right to go to a tribunal, although you must now undertake pre-tribunal conciliation first. You can technically do all this yourself, although I won't pretend it's easy. But if you did go back to a solicitor, pick a better one.

On the face of it, based solely on what you have said here, it does sound questionable. If another job the same is being created, then even in another location it ought to be offered to you as a suitable alternative if you are willing to travel/ relocate as required. That doesn't mean there may not be a very good explanation for this on the part of the employer. But it is fishy.

[AllenTaylor72]

Re: Placed in Consultation, yet they have advertised on there own website for my Job

Hi there thanks for the reply.
When I went to the second meeting I asked the question what criteria was used to select me for redundancy. Their answer was none we have picked you as therenis no work in your area, although I can show there is still plenty of work in my area if it had not been given to someone 2 hours away out of my area.
There are 17 of us across the country all doing the same job.

The relocation part is ridiculous because we are talking 20 miles north or so. But they are using the excuse travel time and fuel costs??
Remember the fist part sending someone 2 hours away to do work on my own doorstep.

I feel this is more unfair dismissal than redundancy.

So at final meeting just accept the outcome and then raise the appeal letter.?

[Sangie595]

Re: Placed in Consultation, yet they have advertised on there own website for my Job

Hi there thanks for the reply.
When I went to the second meeting I asked the question what criteria was used to select me for redundancy. Their answer was none we have picked you as therenis no work in your area, although I can show there is still plenty of work in my area if it had not been given to someone 2 hours away out of my area.
There are 17 of us across the country all doing the same job.

The relocation part is ridiculous because we are talking 20 miles north or so. But they are using the excuse travel time and fuel costs??
Remember the fist part sending someone 2 hours away to do work on my own doorstep.

I feel this is more unfair dismissal than redundancy.

So at final meeting just accept the outcome and then raise the appeal letter.?

No. You challenge it at every opportunity. And show that you have. If you don't have an evidence trail you will struggle with a case.

One of the hardest things to do in these circumstances is to be objective, but you are going to have to try. Just because you think there is plenty of work to do doesn't mean there is enough work to justify the cost of a post. The better argument is why YOUR post and not the other persons? If they can travel two hours to get to your area, then you can travel 2 to get to theirs.

It is also worth asking why all 17 posts weren't in the mix, although Z there may be better reasons for this.

[AllenTaylor72]

Re: Placed in Consultation, yet they have advertised on there own website for my Job

The job they have advertised has a different title now. I have applied for the job myself but obviously using false name and address. I have received an email with job description etc which is 90% the job that I do.

I have spoken to acas tonight who have told me at the next meeting I cannot reject or disagree with the redundancy. I have to accept it, but to make it know that all while I agree with thier decision I DO NOT AGREE it is fair and that I will be taking it to a peal.

He the hen went on to the heel me I would need to seek legal advice if I wanted to rake it to early consilliation as a solicitor is the only one that can come up with a figure to for.
But told me it can't be higher than my annual salary?

[Sangie595]

Re: Placed in Consultation, yet they have advertised on there own website for my Job

90% is not 100% - that is no proof that this is not a fair redundancy.

ACAS are correct, as I have already told you, that you do not have the power to reject redundancy; and must appeal if you wish to take this further.

They are not correct that you must get a solicitor and should never have said that to you. You are perfectly entitled to represent yourself, and to ask for whatever "figure" you want. Whether you get it or not is a different question. In any case, a solicitor can only advise you. But getting your annual salary is wholly unlikely - it is very rare for even a tribunal to award that much. The median award for unfair dismissal (this is the "average" when it is adjusted to make the figures more realistic - the average award figure is not accurate as it is pulled up by the one or two exceedingly high awards, which you won't get) is just over £7k.