Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[MENTION=67649]matt3942[/MENTION] thank you, probably me just reading more into it than there was.

Be interesting to see what they come back with now they know we want to pursue a grievance

[Openlaw15]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

Hi @matt3942, thank you, I asked because the dismissal letter made reference to the fact it was specifically a fixed term contract, so was wondering if it rendered it invalid as the regulations don't cover apprentices.

fixed term contracts still provide the same rights for employees as others, ie permanent anyway.

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@matt3942 thank you, probably me just reading more into it than there was.

Be interesting to see what they come back with now they know we want to pursue a grievance

a lawer might tell them to respond...if they don't use one. Did you cite the grievance for ex employees..as you show me today?

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION], I sent an email from my son to the hr person who sent him his dismissal letter and just said that I (my son) would like to raise a grievance and asked who I should address it to. I also asked for a copy of his appraisal and the coursework, just said they were on his desk but weren't sent with his personal paperwork.

Didn't cite anything, should I have? they surely wouldn't deny something that is written in their handbook

[Openlaw15]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

@Openlaw15, I sent an email from my son to the hr person who sent him his dismissal letter and just said that I (my son) would like to raise a grievance and asked who I should address it to. I also asked for a copy of his appraisal and the coursework, just said they were on his desk but weren't sent with his personal paperwork.

Didn't cite anything, should I have? they surely wouldn't deny something that is written in their handbook

I would send a 2nd email briefly explaining that the grievance is your son's contractual right based on the company procedure you showed me. The terms in the company procedure form part of your son's Apprenticeship Agreement/ contract. If they do not adhere to the contract then they are in breach anyway. Cite the paragraph by number and title,, then it's up to the employer to decide h0w to deal with the matter.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

I would send a 2nd email briefly explaining that the grievance is your son's contractual right based on the company procedure you showed me. The terms in the company procedure form part of your son's Apprenticeship Agreement/ contract. If they do not adhere to the contract then they are in breach anyway. Cite the paragraph by number and title,, then it's up to the employer to decide h0w to deal with the matter.

[MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION] they have not responded so far and I was not expecting them to, I don't think they are used to people questioning what they have been told. Will send a second one over as suggested.

My son has had a response from the Training Provider who are reluctant to put anything on email and asked him to call instead. When speaking to them they didn't really answer the questions I asked so I asked my son to ask the manager for her email address so he could just confirm his understanding of the conversation to see if I can get the answers on paper

[Openlaw15]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

@Openlaw15 they have not responded so far and I was not expecting them to, I don't think they are used to people questioning what they have been told. Will send a second one over as suggested.

My son has had a response from the Training Provider who are reluctant to put anything on email and asked him to call instead. When speaking to them they didn't really answer the questions I asked so I asked my son to ask the manager for her email address so he could just confirm his understanding of the conversation to see if I can get the answers on paper

Use a Dictaphone if it's possible. When it's in writing it's proof, when it's not, it's very hard t prove.

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Use a Dictaphone if it's possible. When it's in writing it's proof, when it's not, it's very hard t prove.

Say, thank you for providing me with your response. However, that was not what I asked you. Can you please answer the question I asked you. Thank you. Tell them you're an educated woman and would like them to speak to you on your level.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

We've just had a response from the lady in HR, she included the section on grievance from the handbook and informed us who we need to address it to, she included the appraisal as requested too. She also said she would collect my son's coursework and forward it on herself, which is good.

I will get on with writing the grievance.

There are 2 issues, the breach of contract by the dismissal and the harassment which caused some of the reasons they gave for dismissal. I don't want one to cloud the other but feel as though they should both be brought up.

Do we just list the facts as we see them?

Many thanks
Jo

[Openlaw15]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

We've just had a response from the lady in HR, she included the section on grievance from the handbook and informed us who we need to address it to, she included the appraisal as requested too. She also said she would collect my son's coursework and forward it on herself, which is good.

I will get on with writing the grievance.

There are 2 issues, the breach of contract by the dismissal and the harassment which caused some of the reasons they gave for dismissal. I don't want one to cloud the other but feel as though they should both be brought up.

Do we just list the facts as we see them?

Many thanks
Jo

Your main: Apprenticeship has come to a premature end. Before you take it to a tribunal..what is employer's solution.

Harassment: paedophile issue etc. Keep it as concise as you can - stick to the point like glue. Intro - explain - conclude. Discuss the issues in the first paragraph then introduce, explain and conclude as you pad out with the details. Put what you will do if you don't have the remedy you desire.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

HI,

a letter has come through regarding a grievance hearing. My son asked if he could be accompanied by me as he is not a member of a union nor does he know anyone at his work that isn't involved in some way and this is what they replied with

With regards to your request to be accompanied by your Mum, we observe the Acas Code of Practice when conducting Grievance Hearings and in line with Sections 34 to 37 there is no statutory right to be accompanied by a parent. To remain consistent with the Code and our Grievance Policy (which you received via email on Monday 5 September) we can make arrangements for you to be accompanied by an employee of ********* who is impartial. Please let me know if you wish for me to make such arrangements..

My son has very little faith in this company, does anyone have any advice please

Many thanks Jo

[seduraed]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

Not a problem get him to ring them and record the conversation.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[MENTION=9906]seduraed[/MENTION] with what purpose?

Is it permissible to record the grievance meeting? He doesn't trust anyone who works there and he's worried about missing something without someone there he trusts to take notes..

His appraisal had things in that weren't talked about and some of the ones that were discussed were misrepresented in the actual document (it was typed up by his manager as the meeting went on so didn't see exactly what was written and only saw a copy after he left)

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[MENTION=67649]matt3942[/MENTION] have you any advice? Grievance meeting is set for 26th Sept

Many thanks
Jo

[matt3942]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[MENTION=66751]Jojo71[/MENTION] - I would certainly try to identify someone who can accompany your son to his grievance meeting. If there is no-one in the company whom he trusts, you may consider approaching a trade union official - your son does not have to be a member of the trade union, and the trade union does not have to be recognised by the employer.

There is an argument that - given your son's age, and his lack of trust and confidence in the employer - it's reasonable for him to be accompanied by a parent; however (as you will have gathered), the employer is not obligated to agree. If - following the outcome of the grievance meeting - you opt to pursue the claim, you may want to include the employer's refusal.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[MENTION=67649]matt3942[/MENTION] thanks. The company will only accept someone who is a full time employee of a trade union or a lay person certified by a trade union as having experience or training in grievance meetings, or an employee of their company. They have offered to sort out an impartial employee but my son said he didn't trust them to be.

I have called some unions up and they have said that if he joined they could give him advice but not attend the meeting as the grievance was already on going. Will try the rest tomorrow.

As he won't be able to make notes easily if he is on his own will ask if he could use a dictaphone to record the meeting, worth a try.

I will help him make notes up for him to read from as I know he will get flustered.

He's been told that it will be the area manager and the hr manager that will be there. The hr manager that is going is the one that told my son that his manager was correct in his dismissal as he was on a fixed term contract that had a probationary period. This will be the bit my son will struggle with as I think they will try to brow beat him into believing they are right.

I can explain what an apprentice agreement is in a way that he can understand and explain back but am struggling with explaining what makes it an apprentice contract, could you please help so he can speak confidently about it?

Many thanks
Jo

[matt3942]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[MENTION=66751]Jojo71[/MENTION]

To qualify as an apprenticeship agreement, the agreement/contract has to satisfy the criteria in Section 32 of the Apprenticeship, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 (ASCLA) (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/22/section/32), and Section 2 of the Apprenticeships (Form of Apprenticeship Agreement) Regulations 2012 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...ulation/2/made).

The agreement/contract must 'include a statement of the skill, trade or occupation for which the apprentice is being trained under the apprenticeship framework.'

You son's agreement/contract does not include such a statement, so does not qualify as an apprenticeship agreement (or contract of service). It instead becomes an apprenticeship contact (or contract of apprenticeship), as per Sections 33 & 35 ASCLA (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/22/section/33 & http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/22/section/35 respectively).

You may need to reword this to suit your son, but don't forget he can take notes into the meeting, so he could simply read a statement.

The web links are for your reference.