Uniform Costs Recovery

[emjane]

Think I posted this in the wrong thread earlier (I'm a newbie!) and I'm still not sure this is in the right place but here goes...

Hi, wondering if anyone can offer up any advice or point me towards my legal rights on this matter...

I recently left a job, I had worked for the company for one month. During my employment I was forced to take and wear company clothing, head to toe, shoes included (clothing which was available to buy on the shop floor by the public). I obliged, wearing this uniform, throughout my employment.

About 3 weeks into my employment the area manager of the company suddenly demanded that all staff signed an A4 sheet stating that a 'verbal discussion' had been had regarding the company's uniform policy (that we would wear the brand's clothing, head to toe whilst at work).

Initially I refused to sign this piece of paper stating a verbal discussion had been had, as there was no written content clearly defining the contents of the verbal discussion. (At this point I had still not received or signed and returned any form of employment contract, which I thought would precede any generic guidelines about uniform?)

I was told by the manager that if I refused to sign, I would have to leave the company. Threatening that I would then lose my job because of this. Fearing that I would not be paid for the 3 weeks of work if I chose to leave at this point, I signed the document which simply stated a verbal discussion regarding uniform had been had. I asked if I could have a copy and was refused.

A week later I had truly had enough of the company and its conduct entirely, I was paid for the previous months work and resigned the next day. The company accepted my resignation, with immediate effect. (I have still not received a payslip for my wages to this point)

On my resignation I received an email from the manager (same one who told me I'd have to leave if I didn't sign etc etc) stating that I have an outstanding uniform balance of £235.00 due by the coming Friday at the latest.

I have since sought advice from CAB on the matter and they convinced me I shouldn't pay the amount.

Now this same manager is threatening civil recovery proceedings if I don't pay up by Friday.

Surely, as with any employer that enforces and provides a specific uniform, on termination of employment the former employee should just return the uniform items and that be the end of it, not have to pay for items specified by the employer?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[des8]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

Hi and welcome

Leaving sounds like a good choice!
Did you ever receive a written contract, or terms of employment?
Did you return the "uniform"
Did you receive your holiday pay?

I wonder what civil recovery he contemplates.. actual court proceedings or the use of Retail Loss Prevention Ltd?

Like CAB, advice from me is "don't pay"

Others will be along with more detailed reasoning

[emjane]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

Hi,

Thanks for responding!
No I didn't ever receive anything in writing, no contract or terms of employment.
To my knowledge I wasn't due any holiday pay nor did I receive any (I still haven't had a payslip so I don't know how my wages were calculated).
I haven't returned the uniform as of yet, as they have tried to tell me that its 'second hand goods' and I will still owe them the money.

I've really dug around for legal information about this on the internet and i can't find a thing!
I'm glad that all the advice I've received so far has been not to pay, makes me feel less like I'm in the wrong (as the company are obviously trying to bully me into believing!)

[des8]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

Well for starters you should receive a payslip either before or when you receive your pay.

If you have worked you are entitled to holiday pay in lieu of holiday taken/
Calculate your dues here; https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement

If the company require staff to pay for their own uniforms this should be at at cost (this should be detailed in the contract and advised at hiring stage)
If at cost the value should be visible on any documents you signed to acknowledge receipt. You did sign for them?

When you handed in your notice did you give eg a weeks notice, and they then said "go now"?

[emjane]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

According to the store manager my payslip has been sent in the post, even though i offered to pick it up from where i worked as i live a 10 minute drive away.

They gave me a breakdown of the cost prices of each item I had worn, but again, I have no contract to refer to, and I haven't signed or been shown anything detailing what should happen regarding uniform on termination of employment. At no point was I instructed to sign for the clothing, so I never did.

[des8]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

Others here are more involved in employment than me, but they aren't on at the moment (it's late!).
Await their response, but IMO your late employers haven't a prayer.
You didn't sign for your uniform, you weren't told its cost at the time of issuance, you weren't properly informed about the need for a uniform....
They seem to be bullies who care little for their employees

[emjane]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

Thanks for your response!

Hopefully soon my former employer will realise they can't really pursue this any further, but in the mean time can anyone else chime in on this issue?

[Kati]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

tagging [MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION] ... he might have some ideas xx

[Openlaw15]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

Think I posted this in the wrong thread earlier (I'm a newbie!) and I'm still not sure this is in the right place but here goes...

Hi, wondering if anyone can offer up any advice or point me towards my legal rights on this matter...

I recently left a job, I had worked for the company for one month. During my employment I was forced to take and wear company clothing, head to toe, shoes included (clothing which was available to buy on the shop floor by the public). I obliged, wearing this uniform, throughout my employment.

About 3 weeks into my employment the area manager of the company suddenly demanded that all staff signed an A4 sheet stating that a 'verbal discussion' had been had regarding the company's uniform policy (that we would wear the brand's clothing, head to toe whilst at work).

Initially I refused to sign this piece of paper stating a verbal discussion had been had, as there was no written content clearly defining the contents of the verbal discussion. (At this point I had still not received or signed and returned any form of employment contract, which I thought would precede any generic guidelines about uniform?)

I was told by the manager that if I refused to sign, I would have to leave the company. Threatening that I would then lose my job because of this. Fearing that I would not be paid for the 3 weeks of work if I chose to leave at this point, I signed the document which simply stated a verbal discussion regarding uniform had been had. I asked if I could have a copy and was refused.

A week later I had truly had enough of the company and its conduct entirely, I was paid for the previous months work and resigned the next day. The company accepted my resignation, with immediate effect. (I have still not received a payslip for my wages to this point)

On my resignation I received an email from the manager (same one who told me I'd have to leave if I didn't sign etc etc) stating that I have an outstanding uniform balance of £235.00 due by the coming Friday at the latest.

I have since sought advice from CAB on the matter and they convinced me I shouldn't pay the amount.

Now this same manager is threatening civil recovery proceedings if I don't pay up by Friday.

Surely, as with any employer that enforces and provides a specific uniform, on termination of employment the former employee should just return the uniform items and that be the end of it, not have to pay for items specified by the employer?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Hello, Emjane

In short, a contract relates to the future and cannot be based on the past. On your facts you were already provided with the uniform although there's a question of whether this relates to uniform or not given it was no different to public clothing. No matter what, because you were already provided with said clothing prior to any verbal exchanges or agreements (ie offer and acceptance stages) or even in written terms, or supported via contract itself, cannot amount to any claim in contract. Your defence to any claims the employer makes is 'the clothing was provided by the employer for purposes of my past employment and nothing else. As I had terminated the employment I was no longer under any legal obligation, mainly because there was no agreements made prior to the clothing having been issued. Alternatively, there was no contract in place as a contract cannot be retro-activated (back-dated). I therefore cannot be liable for any losses because in my view there were no such losses.

If the employer persists in these vexatious claims (ie unfair claims without merit), it's possible to make a counter defence of 'wrongful civil prosecution' based on Willers v Joyce [2016] UKSC 43. Willers is a very recent case decision by the highest court in the UK (Supreme Court) that stops people making wrongful claims, awards damages (compensation); also may provided legal authority to make claims for costs. You could represent yourself in the County Court and ask for costs for at least £18 per hour of your time under Willers [2016] as the employer's action is clearly malicious.

[emjane]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

Hi again everyone,

Thank you all for your responses, this is the latest correspondence I've received from the company:

[emjane]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

The reason I have not returned the clothing prior to this email is because they stated quite clearly previously that it would not be accepted, as they would deem it second hand goods.
Now they are saying because I haven't returned it that I have in effect stolen the clothing? I am baffled and quite stressed about this whole thing.
If I take the uniform back to them, they will still demand money, but can they still regard it as theft if they have the uniform?

Any comments welcomed and appreciated

[ostell]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

Take the uniform back to them, that gets rid of that problem. Go in with someone else when you return the items so you have a witness and try and get a signed receipt. The police won't be interested as how can you steal something that you were given, also how can it be theft if they refuse to take it back? Similarly what are they going to claim in court ?

They are just trying to frighten you into paying for goods that they could have sold. The cost of the clothes will have already been written off against tax so they are the ones comitting fraud by trying to claim twice for the same thing.

[charitynjw]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

Hi emjane

The way you describe this, it's not an employment law issue per se (unless they try to offset against wages owed to you, in which case it will probably be an unauthorised deduction).
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/13

A look at this 'A4 paper' that you were forced to sign might be enlightening.
If it were me, I'd write back to them, referring them to the recent 'take you to court' communication, and demand via Civil Procedure Rules Pre-Action Protocol that they disclose forthwith a copy of the document which you signed under duress, ie you were threatened with the loss of your job if you did not sign it. (Plus any other evidence which they will rely on in court which they claim proves that any money is owed by you for the uniform.)

[des8]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

.,If you do return the clothing, take time and dated photographs showing the clothng is still in good condition.
I wouldn't put it pass these bullies to deliberatey damage it and blame you!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Uniform Costs Recovery

The reason I have not returned the clothing prior to this email is because they stated quite clearly previously that it would not be accepted, as they would deem it second hand goods.
Now they are saying because I haven't returned it that I have in effect stolen the clothing? I am baffled and quite stressed about this whole thing.
If I take the uniform back to them, they will still demand money, but can they still regard it as theft if they have the uniform?

Any comments welcomed and appreciated

Take a photograph of the uniform before you send it back, for your evidence just in case. Put it in writing, too. This way you're keeping track of all events. Do you have in it writing that the employer said the uniform would not be accepted?

- - - Updated - - -

.,If you do return the clothing, take time and dated photographs showing the clothng is still in good condition.
I wouldn't put it pass these bullies to deliberatey damage it and blame you!

Sorry Des8 - you read my mind about evidence, so I accidentally duplicated the information you provided.