Unfair dismissal

[Olliebella]

Hi,

I had been in a role for 21 months and was told to relocate to an office 60 miles away, I refused on the grounds I was told my place of work was to be in one area only and this was reinforced in my contract under place of work. Additionally I could not afford the commute. I was offered no options on how we might approach this to make it work for both parties.

in October this year I was told if you want to stay at your current site you need to take a 10k pay cut or leave. Again I cannot take that kind of financial hit and again no compromise was offered.

I now find myself out of work trying to support a family and pay a mortgage and all I was given was 1 week in leiu. I feel I have been humiliated and bullied and took the details to an employment lawyer whom says I don't have a case? Can this be right?..

thanks

[leclerc]

Re: Unfair dismissal

The reason for not having a case may well be that you have not been in the job two years but that the only evidence you have is being asked to relocate.

Did you resign or were you dismissed or made unemployed?

[Olliebella]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Hi, I was told not to come into work the next day and have since been told they have made me redundant.

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Olliebella

Can you give us more info please as to the back ground of the situation?

Were you informed that redundancy's were being made and that you had been selected?
If yes to the above, was the offer of relocation made afterwards?
If no to the first question, was the 10K pay drop offer put to you in writing/email/text etc and do you still have copies?
If redundancies were being made, what where the grounds given to you for your redundancy? If no grounds given, write to the employer for asking for the reason for making you redundant.

Also check job sites to see if they are advertising your role in both areas (place you worked and place they wanted you to relocate too)

As i suspect if they didn't inform you of redundancy inline with redundancy procedure you may actually have a case of "Automatic Unfair dismissal" (not the same as "Unfair Dismissal") as a result of being selected for redundancy on inadmissible grounds in breach of Section 105 of the Employment Rights Act 1996! In cases of "Automatic Unfair Dismissal" the 2 year qualifying period (duration of employment prior to dismissal) is waived, meaning you could go to tribunal regardless of your length of service under their employment!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Hi,

I had been in a role for 21 months and was told to relocate to an office 60 miles away, I refused on the grounds I was told my place of work was to be in one area only and this was reinforced in my contract under place of work. Additionally I could not afford the commute. I was offered no options on how we might approach this to make it work for both parties.

in October this year I was told if you want to stay at your current site you need to take a 10k pay cut or leave. Again I cannot take that kind of financial hit and again no compromise was offered.

I now find myself out of work trying to support a family and pay a mortgage and all I was given was 1 week in leiu. I feel I have been humiliated and bullied and took the details to an employment lawyer whom says I don't have a case? Can this be right?..

thanks

When your solicitor said you don't have a case, what he probably meant is that your employer could have a defence if his business needed to transfer elsewhere owing to economic problems in the local area. Tribunals are very expensive now and it may have been the lawyer's believe that the costs of defending you would be have been defeated by a genuine employer reasoning. We simply need more information, your role in the organisation ie was it public or private organisation. Did you hold any responsibilities such as a manager or supervisor?

[Olliebella]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Thanks OpenLaw, please see below for the chronology of events, the company is public and I held the title of Account Manager.

I was employed specifically to work out of an office in Hove, East Sussex and have been employed for 21 months.

I was told I had to relocate in SEP 2015 despite assurances when taking employment I would always be based in Hove. ( this is also detailed as my place of work in my contract)

I had to refuse the relocation as I couldn't afford the fares of two trains and a bus for each journey to and from and had commitments to my children's after school care and had to be within a 30 minute commutable distance and for the understanding I was to be employed in Hove, all of this was common knowledge to all of my senior managers.

I was told the company valued me and would like to accommodate me either by a shared office or working from home. I never heard any updates despite my persistent plea's for some guidance on a workable solution for all concerned.

I was finally called on 30/11/2015 and told not to attend work the next day and if I wanted to stay in the Hove office I would have to accept a 10k pay cut on the spot without consideration.

I was forced to leave my job that evening, one that I thoroughly enjoyed against my will with the threat of a sudden and forced change with no offer of talks or negotiation.

I did request what my options were to the owner via email that evening and his reply was "you have none and do not attend work".

The owner has since told me my role is redundant and has invalidated my mortgage insurance policy by stating "every reasonable option of alternative employment was offered to me". I have comprehensive evidence that makes no mistake it was enforced dismissal and NO options were made available.

He also told me he would pay me until the end of December but subsequently gave me a random payment of Ł719 without any supporting pay slip which would indicate holidays owed and tax re-calculations, I have never been sent a formal letter of why I am not employed anymore.

I realise I have not met the obligation required of 2 years service to look at breach of contract although this has clearly happened however this is constructive dismissal.

Thanks
😉

[Olliebella]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Thanks teaboy2 please see chronological events.

I was employed as an Account Manager specifically to work out of an office in Hove, East Sussex and have been employed for 21 months.

I was told I had to relocate in SEP 2015 despite assurances when taking employment I would always be based in Hove. ( this is also detailed as my place of work in my contract)

I had to refuse the relocation as I couldn't afford the fares of two trains and a bus for each journey to and from and had commitments to my children's after school care and had to be within a 30 minute commutable distance and for the understanding I was to be employed in Hove, all of this was common knowledge to all of my senior managers.

I was told the company valued me and would like to accommodate me either by a shared office or working from home. I never heard any updates despite my persistent plea's for some guidance on a workable solution for all concerned.

I was finally called on 30/11/2015 and told not to attend work the next day and if I wanted to stay in the Hove office I would have to accept a 10k pay cut on the spot without consideration.

I was forced to leave my job that evening, one that I thoroughly enjoyed against my will with the threat of a sudden and forced change with no offer of talks or negotiation.

I did request what my options were to the owner via email that evening and his reply was "you have none and do not attend work".


The owner has since told me 7 days later that my role is redundant and has invalidated my mortgage insurance policy by stating "every reasonable option of alternative employment was offered to me". I have comprehensive evidence that makes no mistake it was enforced dismissal and NO options were made available.

He also told me he would pay me until the end of December but subsequently gave me a random payment of Ł719 without any supporting pay slip which would indicate holidays owed and tax re-calculations, I have never been sent a formal letter of why I am not employed anymore.

I have legal cover through my home insurance and as mentioned they never gave me this option which began suprises me. They have said I can pay privately to represent me?.

I am of the view now to instruct them to explore automatic unfair dismissal.

Thanks for the advice as all I seem to hear is bad news from legal partners.

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Thanks teaboy2 please see chronological events.

I was employed as an Account Manager specifically to work out of an office in Hove, East Sussex and have been employed for 21 months.

I was told I had to relocate in SEP 2015 despite assurances when taking employment I would always be based in Hove. ( this is also detailed as my place of work in my contract)

I had to refuse the relocation as I couldn't afford the fares of two trains and a bus for each journey to and from and had commitments to my children's after school care and had to be within a 30 minute commutable distance and for the understanding I was to be employed in Hove, all of this was common knowledge to all of my senior managers.

I was told the company valued me and would like to accommodate me either by a shared office or working from home. I never heard any updates despite my persistent plea's for some guidance on a workable solution for all concerned.

I was finally called on 30/11/2015 and told not to attend work the next day and if I wanted to stay in the Hove office I would have to accept a 10k pay cut on the spot without consideration.

I was forced to leave my job that evening, one that I thoroughly enjoyed against my will with the threat of a sudden and forced change with no offer of talks or negotiation.

I did request what my options were to the owner via email that evening and his reply was "you have none and do not attend work".


The owner has since told me 7 days later that my role is redundant and has invalidated my mortgage insurance policy by stating "every reasonable option of alternative employment was offered to me". I have comprehensive evidence that makes no mistake it was enforced dismissal and NO options were made available.

He also told me he would pay me until the end of December but subsequently gave me a random payment of Ł719 without any supporting pay slip which would indicate holidays owed and tax re-calculations, I have never been sent a formal letter of why I am not employed anymore.

I have legal cover through my home insurance and as mentioned they never gave me this option which began suprises me. They have said I can pay privately to represent me?.

I am of the view now to instruct them to explore automatic unfair dismissal.

Thanks for the advice as all I seem to hear is bad news from legal partners.

What was the reason for them wanting you to move to another place of work?

So the position was made redundant after you vacated it? So there was no formal redundancy process at any point?

Sounds more of a case of redundancy, offer or alternative employment at different place or work. Reasonableness and suitableness of that offer is dependent on extra travel distance (plus costs) and your personal family circumstances - From hat you have said the alternative was simply not a suitable offer of alternative employment. But it also sounds like they completely failed to carry out any form of redundancy procedure, such as consultation etc!

As for the pay slip, you need to request a copy of it by formally writing to them advising them they are required under the employment rights act 1996 to provide you with said payslip!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Unfair dismissal

The first point that comes to mind is you may have presumed you resigned. Your employer said this: ""you have none and do not attend work".

Do not attend work implies your employment never terminated. So instead of unfair dismissal which requires a minimum 2 years employ, you could have a claim for 'wrongful dismissal.'

Please explain this: "has invalidated my mortgage insurance policy by stating.."

[Olliebella]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Hi, the only reason was "it was the head office, where most people reside"

Yes, correct I was told the position was redundant about 14 days after I left (via email). No consultation happened as it all took place in a 10 minute phone call and I asked for a summary of the call in an email and have this in my records. Apart from no formal consultation no options were given to me to facilitate a compromise.

Thanks for all the advice, it has been of great help.

[Olliebella]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Hi, the only reason was "it was the head office, where most people reside"

Yes, correct I was told the position was redundant about 14 days after I left (via email). No consultation happened as it all took place in a 10 minute phone call and I asked for a summary of the call in an email and have this in my records. Apart from no formal consultation no options were given to me to facilitate any compromise.

[Olliebella]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Hi OpenLaw, my policy will only support unemployment made without my own doing (which is totally reasonable) however my ex employee has stated that every conceivable effort was made to accommodate alternative employment for me. This apart from being a complete pack of lies which I have conclusive proof of invalidates the policy as it suggests that I made the choice not to remain gainfully employed.

Perhaps even more curiously I was told by my ex employer that "ACAS advised him that he didn't have to give me a reason for ending my employment" and that ACAS also advised him that I am only due 1 weeks pay in lieu.

Having spoke with ACAS this morning they denied any of this is correct as it is common law after 12 months service to provide a formal letter. My contract also states 4 weeks notice is required and ACAS have confirmed this is what I should have received.

I have asked several questions of my ex employer but receive no answers for the simple reason they know it will mean they will have to admit the whole terrible management and wrong doings that have been placed upon me. The silence is deafening!.


Thanks again for the support/advice

[Openlaw15]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Hi,

I had been in a role for 21 months and was told to relocate to an office 60 miles away, I refused on the grounds I was told my place of work was to be in one area only and this was reinforced in my contract under place of work. Additionally I could not afford the commute. I was offered no options on how we might approach this to make it work for both parties.

in October this year I was told if you want to stay at your current site you need to take a 10k pay cut or leave. Again I cannot take that kind of financial hit and again no compromise was offered.

I now find myself out of work trying to support a family and pay a mortgage and all I was given was 1 week in leiu. I feel I have been humiliated and bullied and took the details to an employment lawyer whom says I don't have a case? Can this be right?..

thanks

Ref your mortgage options: s.36, Administration of Justice Act 1970 (as amended). Simply call your mortgage company (bank) and tell them you would like to defer the capital (legally called 'principal sum', as below) for a certain period.

"Extension of powers ofcourt in action by mortgagee (bank) of dwelling-house

"(1)Where by a mortgage of land which consists of or includes a dwelling-house, or by any agreement between the mortgage under such a mortgage and themortgagor (ie borrower), the mortgagor is entitled or is to be permitted to pay the principal sum secured by instalments or otherwise to defer payment of it in whole or in part, but provision is also made for earlier payment in the event of anydefault by the mortgagor or of a demand by the mortgagee (bank) or otherwise...."

[Openlaw15]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Hi OpenLaw, my policy will only support unemployment made without my own doing (which is totally reasonable) however my ex employee has stated that every conceivable effort was made to accommodate alternative employment for me. This apart from being a complete pack of lies which I have conclusive proof of invalidates the policy as it suggests that I made the choice not to remain gainfully employed.

Perhaps even more curiously I was told by my ex employer that "ACAS advised him that he didn't have to give me a reason for ending my employment" and that ACAS also advised him that I am only due 1 weeks pay in lieu.

Having spoke with ACAS this morning they denied any of this is correct as it is common law after 12 months service to provide a formal letter. My contract also states 4 weeks notice is required and ACAS have confirmed this is what I should have received.

I have asked several questions of my ex employer but receive no answers for the simple reason they know it will mean they will have to admit the whole terrible management and wrong doings that have been placed upon me. The silence is deafening!.


Thanks again for the support/advice

It does not seem like it is automatically unfair under ER 1996, unless the unfair dismissal (constructively, you could no longer work there) had arisen through a statutory right you claimed. It seems to me it is wrongful dismissal as the statement as I referred to above indicate the contrary to any suggestions you had resigned. 2 years is the statutory period for unfair dismissals. However wrongful dismissal (dismissed by employer) there is no period limitation. You can only earn up to 25k in a tribunal...your best remedy is court action for loss of earnings.

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismissal

Hi OpenLaw, my policy will only support unemployment made without my own doing (which is totally reasonable) however my ex employee has stated that every conceivable effort was made to accommodate alternative employment for me. This apart from being a complete pack of lies which I have conclusive proof of invalidates the policy as it suggests that I made the choice not to remain gainfully employed.

Perhaps even more curiously I was told by my ex employer that "ACAS advised him that he didn't have to give me a reason for ending my employment" and that ACAS also advised him that I am only due 1 weeks pay in lieu.

Having spoke with ACAS this morning they denied any of this is correct as it is common law after 12 months service to provide a formal letter. My contract also states 4 weeks notice is required and ACAS have confirmed this is what I should have received.

I have asked several questions of my ex employer but receive no answers for the simple reason they know it will mean they will have to admit the whole terrible management and wrong doings that have been placed upon me. The silence is deafening!.


Thanks again for the support/advice

From what you have said so far, i believe you have strong grounds for a claim. The problem you have its been less than 12months service, so your not entitled to take unfair dismissal claim, unless its automatic unfair dismissal - Which under the redundancy procedure failings it would be automatic unfair dismissal - but no such procedure was even commenced and it was only afterwards the employer said the position was redundant (though i suspect he fully intended to make it redundant in any case, hence why asking you to move to different place in the first place). Though an alternative route would be to go via county court and claim for breach of contract and claim for loss of potential earnings and financial detriment (ref mortgage) his lies to the insurance company could also amount to fraud by false representation - Basically giving a false statement of fact that results in yourself suffering a financial loss - which would be your having to pay your mortgage where the insurance would have covered it.

So its a tough one, to decide on what the best route would be for you to go down, and what would be the best thing to claim against the employer (reference unfairness.wrongfulness of the dismissal etc)