Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

[stevemLS]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

Afraid I can't suggest which is better.

If she thinks she is definitely on the way out it might be worth attempting to have a conversation with them and say that she will resign that is conditional on her receiving as a minimum pay in lieu of notice, holiday pay and an agreed reference which should be at worst, factual and neutral.

Have a look at the ACAS guide to settlement agreements http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/o/a...e)JULY2013.pdf

They can be attractive to employers for many reasons not least of which is avoiding time consuming disciplinary procedures and potentially expensive tribunal claims. Equally, however, if they believe they have a solid case, they may not.

[b16dlg]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

unfortunately it is her boss who is trying to oust her and the company definitely have the evidence that despite her belief of doing what was best for the company at the time she did not follow the correct company protocols as explained above. She has also stated in her disciplinary investigation that she did what she did as she did not find her boss approachable.

Her disciplinary is booked for next tuesday i'm advising handing in her resignation due to a total breakdown of working relationship with immediate effect. My biggest concern now is that we live in and obviously when resigning does that automatically men we have no right of entry from monday or because there is an amount of money that is deducted out of her wages every month albeit described as council tax payments we have effectively a tenancy agreement in place and therefore protected by the laws surrounding that?

I have booked a removal company for thursday next week (earliest available slot) so would be looking to just give them the keys from saturday anyway. Just want to close the door as much as possible before the wife has a total melt down from still being in the place.

again many thanks for the excellent help and advice

[stevemLS]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

Oh bloody hell, that "live in" bit makes it all the more complicated.

As far as I know, live in arrangements are not subject to the usual L&T protections - I hope someone else can clarify?

Have you got somewhere to go?

I'm a bit stumped now, you could always wait for her to be dismissed, lodge a claim for unfair dismissal and then try and get a settlement as part of that process.

What do you both want to do?

My worry is that I expect this industry is a "small world" where the circumstances of her leaving would become known and the impact this would have on her ability to find a job, either having been dismissed or indeed having a reference that says "resigned whilst subject of a disciplinary investigation".

[b16dlg]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

no where to go and as you can imagine with losing half our income stream renting somewhere is a bit of a tricky dilemma as we obviously have financial commitments based on our joint earning power. We have sent the kids to live with my mum whilst all this is sorted out in the hope they do not suffer too much of what is going on at least they are attending school as normal etc.

I'll make sure the wife can stay somewhere as for me i'm sure i can borrow a friends couch for a short while whilst everything is sorted.

i actually think i'm left with no choice but to potentially upset the wife by trying to have a hypothetical conversation with her boss along the lines of if a resignation letter with notice was put in (bearing in mind she has enough holiday days accrued to basically be on holiday during the notice period) and ask him if he would drop the disciplinary i really don't expect him to say yes though.

The industry is fairly close knit but my wife is the only one out of 13 managers left in the business since the area managers changed over in march then again in august, the others have all left the business after being involved in investigations etc. so she could quite easily state to new employers that the business wanted her out and she made a mistake which gave them the opportunity to get her out. its not a lie and it would explain why she resigned first.

hell i'm waffling as near breaking point trying to keep everything together, so many if buts and maybe's

re unfair dismissal - the fact that she did not follow company procedure renders the reason for dismissal probably as valid so unfair dismissal not an option, would have to try to prove constructive dismissal which is almost impossible

[stevemLS]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

Your first priority then must be to find somewhere to live.

I talked about unfair dismissal as a bargaining tool to try and achieve a settlement, you are realistic about the potential outcome and I don't doubt if it went to a hearing you would lose. It might just prompt them into agreeing something more advantageous.

Constructive dismissal is a non starter.

[b16dlg]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

The good news is she has 4 interviews lined up for next week 3 would be live in positions but she really doesnt know at what point to bring up what is happening with her current employer or whether to try to circumvent using the manager who has offered to give her a reference. She is an honest girl though and really doesnt want to have to try to hide the fact she was/is under investigation as she would worry that it would one day come back to haunt her.

we do have somewhere to go just not the most ideal and very short term, kids are fine at grandmas for now

[b16dlg]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

so just bit the bullet and had hypothetical conversation with her boss

resignation with immediate effect and accept no pay due in lieu of notice would be accepted

reference will only state resigned and the time she has worked there

2 weeks to find somewhere to live which is not an issue

shows it pays to talk, thank you everyone for listening to me waffle

[stevemLS]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

OK, well, not the best possible outcome but not the worst either.

Let us know if there is anything else you need ideas or suggestions with.

[b16dlg]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

Hi sorry for the big gap but the saga continues

the company has stopped all her final wages that were due and apparently for the last 4 months have been deducting 2 lots of council tax monthly payments stating arrears (council tax is what they charge for living in the flat) when there has never been arrears. My wife has also told me that they took over £1000 from her wages due to the aforementioned stock issues in april and to recoup some money that was later proven hadnt gone missing but had been double accounted.

My question is this I want to email the company threatening legal action to recoup the money as i have been told there would be a good chance they would pay her off if threatened but i am not sure of the best way to word it as we have not actually sought legal advice. We have basically been told by other managers who have left the company that they have succesfully claimed money deducted etc back by threatening the legal action.

any advice greatly fully received please

kind regards

Damion

[Kati]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

:bump: for [MENTION=26290]mariefab[/MENTION] [MENTION=48758]stevemLS[/MENTION] [MENTION=70489]judgemental24[/MENTION]

[jaydee]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

Hi

My advice just lodge a case with the Employments Tribunal Service and leave it to them you only have from memory three months from the date the original issue complaint arose. As for the deductions not permitted unless your agreed in writing by both parties.

[mariefab]

Re: Potential dismissal for gross misconduct

A potential problem is that, if you take this step, you risk the Company re-opening the earlier misuse of funds issue.

Would you still be better off if any counter claim they made was successful?