Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

[Neanderthal]

I work at a small wealth management firm in London, and I recently by chance overhead my replacement being discussed.

The company has recently taken on a new Chairman, and he is leading the process to hire a new Investment Manager which has been ongoing for several months. This we all know and is not news.

However, the loo's are right next to the kitchen and as I was washing my hands from beyond the door I overhead the new chairman saying that they had it down to 4 candidates, but he favoured hiring 2 of them and replacing me. Makes sense as he would then have 2 guys who owed loyalty to him.

He went on to say that he was trying to persuade the CEO and owner of the business of this course of action and that he thinks he was going to win the argument. So its not 100% confirmed, but I have to assume it will happen. They don't know I know anything.

I don't want it to happen, but then again its not the end of the world, I can get another job, I am concerned however about securing a decent settlement as I would need that. Getting a job in my industry can take months.

My other concern is that the 2 top guys are lawyers, and can be kinda shitty about that stuff, so if they can find a way to legally screw me, they will. I've been reading that for a redundancy to be considered genuine by HMRC and thus be tax free for the first £30k it must mean that the role is genuinely redundant. But obviously if they hire two guys for the same job while getting rid of me clearly the role is not redundant. I might end up losing my job, and not getting a genuine redundancy, paying too much tax.

I also have redundancy insurance in place which will pay out 60% of my salary for a year, which is very comforting in this situation. But again that needs to be a genuine redundancy to qualify.

So guys, what do I do? What do I need to know so that I don't mess up when they make me an offer?

[judgemental24]

Re: Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

Nothing at the moment until any formal redundancy offer is put on the table

You are correct in that they cannot make you redundant and give your job role to another. With redundancy it is the position made redundant, not the employee

Redundancy may not happen so i advise do nothing until confirmed

[Neanderthal]

Re: Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

Thank you. But of course once they decide upon it I'm sure they can find a way.

In my experience this normally comes down to making an offer both sides can accept. In this case I suspect I might have a strong negotiating hand, but want to watch out for any traps. Given these guys are lawyers they will know them, I won't.

I'm also worried about if its not a genuine redundancy, but I accept a compromise agreement. that it will be declared invalid for tax free status.

[edit] A better way to ask my question I just realised. If they can't find a reason for a genuine redundancy, but they decided they want me gone, how do they do it on the cheap..... not so worried about the payoff option.

[judgemental24]

Re: Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

Yiour redundancy will be decided on terms written into your contract of emplloyment. If there are no such terms than normal statutory redundancy payments will apply

[Neanderthal]

Re: Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

Okay.. but if they don't have a legitimate reason for redundancy?

[mariefab]

Re: Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

It could go like this:
They hire the new guys.
After a couple of months they do a restructuring exercise.
This exercise shows that don't need 2 people doing the same sort of role as yours.
So, they decide to make 1 role redundant.
The remaining role could have a slightly different title. They may say that they need a particular qualification or work experience for the role (that by sheer coincidence the new guy has).
You are then, after a couple of meetings, dismissed by reason of legitimate redundancy.

There are worse scenarios:
They decide to search for reasons to dismiss you for misconduct. Checking your internet history, time-keeping, strict obedience to policies and procedures etc.
They could use performance management. Any employer prepared to hold a few documented meetings over a period of months can accomplish this.

[Amethyst]

Re: Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

How long have you worked at the firm?

[Neanderthal]

Re: Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

There are worse scenarios:
They decide to search for reasons to dismiss you for misconduct. Checking your internet history, time-keeping, strict obedience to policies and procedures etc.
They could use performance management. Any employer prepared to hold a few documented meetings over a period of months can accomplish this.

Exactly what I was worried about. I'm not sure how to defend against that. I'll know I'm out as soon as I see if they hire just the 1 guy in the plan, or the 2 guys the new chairman wants. Then I need to know how I play it. Maybe I admit that I know I'm going before they have time to go through that process. Force their hand to give me a compromise agreement rather than go through the sort of charade you mention.


Amethyst, I have worked their 3.5 years. My notice period is 3 months.

[Amethyst]

Re: Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

If you are 100% certain that you heard the conversation correctly and haven't got the wrong end of the stick, then it might be an idea to mention your concern to your manager - management don't always let a new chairman waltz in and start changing things. The conversation may have progressed and alternatives decisions made or considered. Maybe you could offer to be involved with the recruitment process, as you will be working closely with the new recruit...ie. try turn it into a positive and show you are keen to develop etc.

I would say keep your nose extra ultra clean and be employee of the century, but realistically you can't live like that, the stress would make working life quite miserable, so I think tactically you have to try turn it to your advantage somehow, rather than waiting for it to happen.

When it comes down to it they can get rid of you, and hopefully they would be above board about it and not go about it the way mariefab has said, but it happens, there's a year long thread in VIP where employers have done just that to someone - quite horrendous. If they know you know upfront then they will have a lot more trouble sidelining you out and personally I think you are more likely to get a compromise agreement to go quietly, without having to go through the crap of invented reasons for starting dismissal procedure.

Just some thoughts anyway.

[Neanderthal]

Re: Going to be made redundant, they don't know I know

That's brilliant, many thanks for your advice. It was my instinct that letting on I know (after I know if they actually hire two guys) was the right thing to do.


Finally, what do you think is achievable in terms of a settlement?


I have 3 months’ notice anyway, and would hope for at least another 3 months money on that to give six months total. Which would take me slightly over the £30k tax free limit. Also is it feasible to expect anything for missed bonus? – We are 5 months into a new bonus period. And last few year bonus was £10k.